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Would a more extensive rail infrastructure eliminate the need for so many trucks? Does rail fail to scale at the distances and route complexities involved in tr

by lysol 15y ago

Would a more extensive rail infrastructure eliminate the need for so many trucks? Does rail fail to scale at the distances and route complexities involved in traversing the US to all the major population centers? I promised I didn't intend to rhyme in the previous sentence.

splat 15y ago
I doubt it. The United States already has the best rail infrastructure in the world for cargo. The problem is that rail is relatively slow and you still need to get your goods from the rail station to whatever store or factory they're needed at.
dmm 15y ago
The US has the largest railway network in the world, in terms of total length of tracks and in tonnage of cargo. The US does not have a very extensive passenger rail network.
- arjunnarayan 15y ago
  dmm is right. Citation: http://www.economist.com/node/16636101 http://www.economist.com/node/16636101 There's a reason Berkshire Hathaway spent 34 billion to buy Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corporation.
- lysol 15y ago
  Seems like this is an unavoidable issue with the land area of the United States, then. The pain-in-the-ass has to be relocated to someone, so it ends up with the truck drivers and/or product costs.
jrwoodruff 15y ago
Problem is there's a lot in between all your major population centers, and you can't run a rail line to (or in many cases, even close to) every mom-and-pop store. Also, many of these trucks will haul cargo for multiple locations - custom windows for three different stores and two construction sites for instance. No rail line is efficient at delivering small loads.
- jgoewert 15y ago
  But, you can have depots and these things called "Train Stations" to drop off goods and have a trucking company move the goods the last 10 miles. As for small loads, this is where combined shipping comes in handy. I believe many of the shipping companies like UPS and FedEx used to do a lot of ground shipping via rail for their 5-7 day deliveries. I don't know about this anymore.
16s 15y ago
To get from the Chinese ships to the rail station... you must have trucks. To get from the rail station to Walmart... you must have trucks. No way around it.
- shabble 15y ago
  I'd imagine (on the basis of common sense, rather than evidence, so I may well be wrong), that there should be rail facilities fairly close to any major port. Trucking from the railhead is probably unavoidable, but the article talks about a 1000mi trip, whereas according to wikipedia at least, greatest distance across the 48 states is 2800mi. Surely the nearest freight depot should be less than 1/3 of the country away?
  - jmesserly 15y ago
    You're right about the port. Here's a link to the Harbor Island map (in Seattle, WA where we get lots of shipments from Asia), note proximity of rail lines: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Harbor+island,+Seattle,+WA&hl=en&ll=47.57916,-122.351389&spn=0.036968,0.046992&sll=47.579826,-122.352591&sspn=0.036968,0.046992&vpsrc=0&z=15 http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Harbor+island,+Seattle,+WA&#38... I don't know much about it, but the machinery at the port looks really impressive. It seems to lift cargo from the ships onto the trains.
  - Unseelie 15y ago
    The issue isn't so much the distance from the train, so much as once you take it off the train, you split it up into much smaller loads....with different owners and destinations, and those loads probably change hands, and are pretty hard to put -back- onto trains.
    - nitrogen 15y ago
      It sounds like we need an RFC for automated packet-switched transport of physical goods. Surely the existing algorithms used for physical logistics and IP network routing could be used to create a highly-reliable automatic package delivery system.
bsiemon 15y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_sprawl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_sprawl

by lysol 15y ago

splat 15y ago

I doubt it. The United States already has the best rail infrastructure in the world for cargo. The problem is that rail is relatively slow and you still need to get your goods from the rail station to whatever store or factory they're needed at.

dmm 15y ago

The US has the largest railway network in the world, in terms of total length of tracks and in tonnage of cargo. The US does not have a very extensive passenger rail network.

arjunnarayan 15y ago
dmm is right. Citation: http://www.economist.com/node/16636101 http://www.economist.com/node/16636101 There's a reason Berkshire Hathaway spent 34 billion to buy Burlington Northern Santa Fe Corporation.
lysol 15y ago
Seems like this is an unavoidable issue with the land area of the United States, then. The pain-in-the-ass has to be relocated to someone, so it ends up with the truck drivers and/or product costs.

jrwoodruff 15y ago

Problem is there's a lot in between all your major population centers, and you can't run a rail line to (or in many cases, even close to) every mom-and-pop store. Also, many of these trucks will haul cargo for multiple locations - custom windows for three different stores and two construction sites for instance. No rail line is efficient at delivering small loads.

jgoewert 15y ago
But, you can have depots and these things called "Train Stations" to drop off goods and have a trucking company move the goods the last 10 miles. As for small loads, this is where combined shipping comes in handy. I believe many of the shipping companies like UPS and FedEx used to do a lot of ground shipping via rail for their 5-7 day deliveries. I don't know about this anymore.

16s 15y ago

To get from the Chinese ships to the rail station... you must have trucks. To get from the rail station to Walmart... you must have trucks. No way around it.

shabble 15y ago
I'd imagine (on the basis of common sense, rather than evidence, so I may well be wrong), that there should be rail facilities fairly close to any major port. Trucking from the railhead is probably unavoidable, but the article talks about a 1000mi trip, whereas according to wikipedia at least, greatest distance across the 48 states is 2800mi. Surely the nearest freight depot should be less than 1/3 of the country away?
- jmesserly 15y ago
  You're right about the port. Here's a link to the Harbor Island map (in Seattle, WA where we get lots of shipments from Asia), note proximity of rail lines: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Harbor+island,+Seattle,+WA&hl=en&ll=47.57916,-122.351389&spn=0.036968,0.046992&sll=47.579826,-122.352591&sspn=0.036968,0.046992&vpsrc=0&z=15 http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Harbor+island,+Seattle,+WA&#38... I don't know much about it, but the machinery at the port looks really impressive. It seems to lift cargo from the ships onto the trains.
- Unseelie 15y ago
  The issue isn't so much the distance from the train, so much as once you take it off the train, you split it up into much smaller loads....with different owners and destinations, and those loads probably change hands, and are pretty hard to put -back- onto trains.
  - nitrogen 15y ago
    It sounds like we need an RFC for automated packet-switched transport of physical goods. Surely the existing algorithms used for physical logistics and IP network routing could be used to create a highly-reliable automatic package delivery system.

bsiemon 15y ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_sprawl http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_sprawl