4 ms·

Please be aware that you are going out of your way to construct a scenario where Don is being insincere and even malicious; there is hipocrisy in your demands f

Please be aware that you are going out of your way to construct a scenario where Don is being insincere and even malicious; there is hipocrisy in your demands for specific evidence in your first comment and your assumptions in this one. There are other ways to bring your interpretations to the table, ways that allow thoughtful discussion and so won't see your comments categorically rejected.

pvaldes 5y ago
> there is hipocrisy in your demands for specific evidence in your first comment You must refer to the post written by CameronNemo. Those aren't neither "my demands" nor my comment. Yep, I believe totally in those hypothetical women putting plants in their room because "Stallman can't stand being in the same room as plants". The trick is working great it seems. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Egill-stallman.jpg/320px-Egill-stallman.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Eg... http://blogs.laprensagrafica.com/litoibarra/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/blog238img31.jpg http://blogs.laprensagrafica.com/litoibarra/wp-content/uploa... Is also obvious that the man is afraid of trees and nature in general https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stallman_Jadwisin_9.JPG https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stallman_Jadwisin_9.... Real phobias are serious medical problems causing a lot of anxiety and pain in people that just can't avoid being afraid. Is not funny stuff to gossip about it. I think that spread the rumor of somebody having a phobia is, if not malicious, at least of very bad taste. Specially when several documents show the opposite behavior. And if you say that this wrapped thing is a gerbil, well... Solid evidence. All packages with that shape contain a live gerbil inside. The more expensive Tesla cars even have four squirrel units inside for feeding the battery.
- DonHopkins 5y ago
  That's true, those weren't your demands, but you're the guy who doesn't believe the women, and called my friend a creepy spoiled brat while lecturing me about civility. Defending RMS's love of trees isn't the hill I'd choose to die on. If you really don't believe her, re-read what that wise woman wrote 35 years ago about RMS groupies, and tell me that it doesn't apply to you today: >Yet I still hear people I love and respect talk about him as if he were some kind of deity, as if his Free Software Foundation were the noblest effort in the world. It is admirable, yes. But to glorify the thoroughly sick human being behind it into some sort of whole-life messianic figure is unconscionable. Meeting RMS groupies was yet another contributing factor to my punting of the computer world for the time being. So many of the "hackers" out there (hackers, not crackers/urchins/destructoids) seem to have their external values totally fukt. Sure, we're all entitled to different values. Fine. But it grieves me to see good people withering away behind a self-imposed wall of lonely techno-perfection, their frantic efforts to acquire friends and lovers made all the more poignant by the desperation in their eyes, voice, manner. Most of them know that they are lacking something important, but don't know what it is, or how to get it, or who to ask for it. Many can see themselves alienating people or spurning offers of friendship and affection, but don't know how or why they're doing so. They just look impassive and bored and in control, and damn themselves silently in their minds, self-inflicting the rejection and pain that they feared from the outside.
  - pvaldes 5y ago
    > you're the guy who doesn't believe the women Nobody should believe "the" women. Not more that we should believe "the" men. Everybody can have hidden agendas. Being a woman is not a proof that somebody is not lying. Moreover. In fact, nobody should believe "me", or "you". Specially when there are a pattern of dissonances between what somebody claims, the quality of the proofs shown and the easy to find facts that don't match what is claimed. > re-read what that wise woman wrote 35 years ago about RMS groupies To start, she seems to have a poor and 'holier-than-thou' opinion about all [male] hackers that describes as "fu*d people", and this is not a good sign in my book. I doubt also that RMS would have a lot of "groupies" or fame in 1986, five years before the first Linux. If something was proven with time is that he was right, and that the "such smart woman" was clueless as a blind chicken about the future impact of the FSF. Your example would be like talking about how disappointing was the impact to Bill Gates to our society at 8 years old. > called my friend a creepy spoiled brat Maybe is a great guy, but in this two photos it surely looks like one. You are not doing him any favor showing them here.
    - DonHopkins 5y ago
      You're strangely obsessed with your mistaken belief that RMS loves trees, based on never having met him, and your Dendrophobia Deniel conspiracy theory that I and all the women I've quoted and my friend Devon are liars, based on never having met any of us or even RMS himself. Devon just created an account and replied above. It turns out I was mistaken about the particular tree: it was actually the tree around the corner of the house that was outside the bedroom window. But Devon confirms that people of all genders at the AI/LCS lab hung ferns in their offices to keep RMS away. You probably want to interrogate and insult him directly if you still believe he's a "lying" "creepy" "spoiled brat" (although I have no idea how you so "surely" inferred those specific labels from the photographs -- did you use Facebook's computer vision AI?), at the risk of being banned from HN for antisocial behavior, but I suggest you remain civil, since you're the one who's hypocritically defending RMS's behavior while lecturing other people about civility while incorrectly labeling and insulting them and their friends, based on your imagination and no evidence or first hand experience whatsoever. https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-apologizes-artificial-intelligence-labels-black-men-primates-video-2021-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-apologizes-artifici... And yes, RMS did have many groupies in 1986 and long before, and he was quite well known even in the 70's, in certain circles. He started working at the MIT AI Lab in 1971, with Gerald Sussman in 1975, and he and Sussman published an early widely cited paper on AI truth maintenance and dependency-directed backtracking in 1977. It was openly known by many people on the ARPANET that his password was "rms", and he welcomed people to log in and use his account. And the ARPANET was a very small tightly knit circle, were everybody knew each other, back in the days of NCP, when host numbers were only 8 bits, so there could be no more than 256 hosts, and homosocketuality was prohibited, before "Flag Day" in 1983 when they switched to TCP/IP with its 32 bit addresses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Control_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Control_Program https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14178653 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14178653 So it's supremely ironic, ignorant, and insulting that you would mistakenly short measure the temporal extent of RMS's fame by the young age of "Linux", instead of saying "Gnu/Linux". Obviously you have never met him personally and triggered him by saying "Linux" instead of "Gnu/Linux" in his presence, and that shows you know very little about the history of FSF or the personality of RMS. He'd probably be furious with you for what you said about his fame following the success of the first "Linux". Richard Stallman when you call it Linux instead of GNU/Linux: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8VgjZUel6M&ab_channel=DullBananas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8VgjZUel6M&ab_channel=DullB...
- Normal_gaussian 5y ago
  For completeness sake: I was referring to your first comment where you demand proof for all possible interpretations. That said, it now seems both of you have gone massively off the deep end becoming very involved and abusing the edit function to further arguments where you talk past each other, so I both regret saying and reading anything.

pvaldes 5y ago

> there is hipocrisy in your demands for specific evidence in your first comment You must refer to the post written by CameronNemo. Those aren't neither "my demands" nor my comment. Yep, I believe totally in those hypothetical women putting plants in their room because "Stallman can't stand being in the same room as plants". The trick is working great it seems. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Egill-stallman.jpg/320px-Egill-stallman.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fb/Eg... http://blogs.laprensagrafica.com/litoibarra/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/blog238img31.jpg http://blogs.laprensagrafica.com/litoibarra/wp-content/uploa... Is also obvious that the man is afraid of trees and nature in general https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stallman_Jadwisin_9.JPG https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Stallman_Jadwisin_9.... Real phobias are serious medical problems causing a lot of anxiety and pain in people that just can't avoid being afraid. Is not funny stuff to gossip about it. I think that spread the rumor of somebody having a phobia is, if not malicious, at least of very bad taste. Specially when several documents show the opposite behavior. And if you say that this wrapped thing is a gerbil, well... Solid evidence. All packages with that shape contain a live gerbil inside. The more expensive Tesla cars even have four squirrel units inside for feeding the battery.

DonHopkins 5y ago
That's true, those weren't your demands, but you're the guy who doesn't believe the women, and called my friend a creepy spoiled brat while lecturing me about civility. Defending RMS's love of trees isn't the hill I'd choose to die on. If you really don't believe her, re-read what that wise woman wrote 35 years ago about RMS groupies, and tell me that it doesn't apply to you today: >Yet I still hear people I love and respect talk about him as if he were some kind of deity, as if his Free Software Foundation were the noblest effort in the world. It is admirable, yes. But to glorify the thoroughly sick human being behind it into some sort of whole-life messianic figure is unconscionable. Meeting RMS groupies was yet another contributing factor to my punting of the computer world for the time being. So many of the "hackers" out there (hackers, not crackers/urchins/destructoids) seem to have their external values totally fukt. Sure, we're all entitled to different values. Fine. But it grieves me to see good people withering away behind a self-imposed wall of lonely techno-perfection, their frantic efforts to acquire friends and lovers made all the more poignant by the desperation in their eyes, voice, manner. Most of them know that they are lacking something important, but don't know what it is, or how to get it, or who to ask for it. Many can see themselves alienating people or spurning offers of friendship and affection, but don't know how or why they're doing so. They just look impassive and bored and in control, and damn themselves silently in their minds, self-inflicting the rejection and pain that they feared from the outside.
- pvaldes 5y ago
  > you're the guy who doesn't believe the women Nobody should believe "the" women. Not more that we should believe "the" men. Everybody can have hidden agendas. Being a woman is not a proof that somebody is not lying. Moreover. In fact, nobody should believe "me", or "you". Specially when there are a pattern of dissonances between what somebody claims, the quality of the proofs shown and the easy to find facts that don't match what is claimed. > re-read what that wise woman wrote 35 years ago about RMS groupies To start, she seems to have a poor and 'holier-than-thou' opinion about all [male] hackers that describes as "fu*d people", and this is not a good sign in my book. I doubt also that RMS would have a lot of "groupies" or fame in 1986, five years before the first Linux. If something was proven with time is that he was right, and that the "such smart woman" was clueless as a blind chicken about the future impact of the FSF. Your example would be like talking about how disappointing was the impact to Bill Gates to our society at 8 years old. > called my friend a creepy spoiled brat Maybe is a great guy, but in this two photos it surely looks like one. You are not doing him any favor showing them here.
  - DonHopkins 5y ago
    You're strangely obsessed with your mistaken belief that RMS loves trees, based on never having met him, and your Dendrophobia Deniel conspiracy theory that I and all the women I've quoted and my friend Devon are liars, based on never having met any of us or even RMS himself. Devon just created an account and replied above. It turns out I was mistaken about the particular tree: it was actually the tree around the corner of the house that was outside the bedroom window. But Devon confirms that people of all genders at the AI/LCS lab hung ferns in their offices to keep RMS away. You probably want to interrogate and insult him directly if you still believe he's a "lying" "creepy" "spoiled brat" (although I have no idea how you so "surely" inferred those specific labels from the photographs -- did you use Facebook's computer vision AI?), at the risk of being banned from HN for antisocial behavior, but I suggest you remain civil, since you're the one who's hypocritically defending RMS's behavior while lecturing other people about civility while incorrectly labeling and insulting them and their friends, based on your imagination and no evidence or first hand experience whatsoever. https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-apologizes-artificial-intelligence-labels-black-men-primates-video-2021-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-apologizes-artifici... And yes, RMS did have many groupies in 1986 and long before, and he was quite well known even in the 70's, in certain circles. He started working at the MIT AI Lab in 1971, with Gerald Sussman in 1975, and he and Sussman published an early widely cited paper on AI truth maintenance and dependency-directed backtracking in 1977. It was openly known by many people on the ARPANET that his password was "rms", and he welcomed people to log in and use his account. And the ARPANET was a very small tightly knit circle, were everybody knew each other, back in the days of NCP, when host numbers were only 8 bits, so there could be no more than 256 hosts, and homosocketuality was prohibited, before "Flag Day" in 1983 when they switched to TCP/IP with its 32 bit addresses. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Control_Program https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_Control_Program https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14178653 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14178653 So it's supremely ironic, ignorant, and insulting that you would mistakenly short measure the temporal extent of RMS's fame by the young age of "Linux", instead of saying "Gnu/Linux". Obviously you have never met him personally and triggered him by saying "Linux" instead of "Gnu/Linux" in his presence, and that shows you know very little about the history of FSF or the personality of RMS. He'd probably be furious with you for what you said about his fame following the success of the first "Linux". Richard Stallman when you call it Linux instead of GNU/Linux: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8VgjZUel6M&ab_channel=DullBananas https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8VgjZUel6M&ab_channel=DullB...
Normal_gaussian 5y ago
For completeness sake: I was referring to your first comment where you demand proof for all possible interpretations. That said, it now seems both of you have gone massively off the deep end becoming very involved and abusing the edit function to further arguments where you talk past each other, so I both regret saying and reading anything.