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That's comparing apples and oranges. Perhaps, fish have free will, but this conversation is about human beings, where we have the internal laboratory apparatus

by IncRnd 5y ago

That's comparing apples and oranges. Perhaps, fish have free will, but this conversation is about human beings, where we have the internal laboratory apparatus required for introspection and determination. We can create hypothesis and tests, then inspect results. We are directly able to test, through choice, to prove that we have free will. It is foolish to compare yourself to a fish, though your ability to compare your mentality to that of a fish was your free choice made from your own free will.

MichaelZuo 5y ago
That’s a fairly reductive definition of ‘will’ if fish can have it. It is not clear at all your claim is true in the general case, which is the point. Humans differ from fish not in kind, but only in degree, a few hundred million years of evolutionary divergence as the biologists would have it. Unless of course special factors such as a ‘soul’ are assigned to humans and so on.
- IncRnd 5y ago
  You didn't address anything I wrote, instead choosing to create a strawman about the will of fish. I sincerely hope that one day you will grow into realizing that you have free will.
  - MichaelZuo 5y ago
    ‘You can't predict unless you have the will to perform a prediction.’ That is a general claim that you wrote that I have shown is not correct unless you have an interpretation of the word ‘will’ that is so broad as to render your other statements somewhat meaningless. In fact you are the one creating the strawman since you dodged addressing the question. I have made no separate claims about my personal free will, or lack thereof.
    - IncRnd 5y ago
      Thanks for pretending to be the arbitar of truth, but you are the one who responded to my comment (made to another), "If you don't accept that you have free will, than nothing you write or say has any meaning." It is now obvious you have no point other than wanting to debate words and are being intentionally obtuse. This is not a high school debate class, and I will no longer engage in your foolishness, since you have stated that you are not actually commenting on the subject of the conversation.
      - MichaelZuo 5y ago
        Another strawman. I’m not exactly sure why you think I would care so much about your opinions to be ‘the arbiter of truth’ for any topic. You’ve made claims that are clearly erroneous and I’ve been pointing them out to the passing reader, so they are not waylaid. I won’t comment on the correct interpretation of ‘free will’ since I myself don’t know, and decline to pretend to know.

by IncRnd 5y ago

MichaelZuo 5y ago

That’s a fairly reductive definition of ‘will’ if fish can have it. It is not clear at all your claim is true in the general case, which is the point. Humans differ from fish not in kind, but only in degree, a few hundred million years of evolutionary divergence as the biologists would have it. Unless of course special factors such as a ‘soul’ are assigned to humans and so on.

IncRnd 5y ago
You didn't address anything I wrote, instead choosing to create a strawman about the will of fish. I sincerely hope that one day you will grow into realizing that you have free will.
- MichaelZuo 5y ago
  ‘You can't predict unless you have the will to perform a prediction.’ That is a general claim that you wrote that I have shown is not correct unless you have an interpretation of the word ‘will’ that is so broad as to render your other statements somewhat meaningless. In fact you are the one creating the strawman since you dodged addressing the question. I have made no separate claims about my personal free will, or lack thereof.
  - IncRnd 5y ago
    Thanks for pretending to be the arbitar of truth, but you are the one who responded to my comment (made to another), "If you don't accept that you have free will, than nothing you write or say has any meaning." It is now obvious you have no point other than wanting to debate words and are being intentionally obtuse. This is not a high school debate class, and I will no longer engage in your foolishness, since you have stated that you are not actually commenting on the subject of the conversation.
    - MichaelZuo 5y ago
      Another strawman. I’m not exactly sure why you think I would care so much about your opinions to be ‘the arbiter of truth’ for any topic. You’ve made claims that are clearly erroneous and I’ve been pointing them out to the passing reader, so they are not waylaid. I won’t comment on the correct interpretation of ‘free will’ since I myself don’t know, and decline to pretend to know.