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This law accomplishes a few things that people are missing: 1. A stark reminder that pro-lifers aren't giving up, and that 48 years of fighting later, they are

This law accomplishes a few things that people are missing: 1. A stark reminder that pro-lifers aren't giving up, and that 48 years of fighting later, they are stronger and getting stronger over time. And that the pro-abortion side should take notice. 2. A law that, even though it will almost inevitably fail, in the eyes of pro-lifers, several dozen children will be saved (due to inability to get abortions) and thus it is worth throwing the curveball regardless of the method. 3. A law that does a great job at getting pro-abortion women into placing blame on the Biden administration as inept and unable to stop Republicans effectively, hurting morale among his voter base, while boosting morale of Republicans to have gotten an even-temporary win after, what, 48 years of fighting? It can also be a political tactic. 4. Remember that ~50% of Republicans are women. This isn't all just angry men who like controlling women, and the pro-abortion side isn't very effective at reaching them.

flailingroof 5y ago
2. Or it will just cause the women to get abortions elsewhere, or let the kids grow up in homes that can't support them. Not to mention the extra loads of single moms (or dads). No one will be "saved". What it's more likely to accomplish is to make Texas even more republican, and to make the US appear even more crazy to the outside world.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  Adoption is an option, and you have no idea who that child could become. Steve Jobs was given up for adoption because abortion wasn’t legal at the time.
  - cobalt 5y ago
    what about the billions of people already on this planet who are not in such a lucky position?
  - standardUser 5y ago
    We also have no idea who the 15% of all pregnancies that end in miscarriages "could become" but we don't obsess over it because pregnancy never has been and never will be the guarantee of a fully formed independent human being. Not in humans, not in any species.
  - all2 5y ago
    I have an inkling as to why this comment is being downvoted, but I'd love to see some actual responses to it that refute or at least engage with the claim that "adoption is an option".
  - falcolas 5y ago
    Adoption still places the parents under the duress of the medical bills up to the point of adoption, nor does it address the extreme physical duress it places the mother under. Additionally, it does not address cases of rape, incest, pregnancies which have a high chance of killing the mother, or children with severe defects (who are likely to remain in foster homes, in the average-to-good case).
  - mcphage 5y ago
    Steve Jobs was also the child of Syrian immigrants, so I’m not really sure he’s the person you should be trotting out in situations like these.
  - belltaco 5y ago
    It won't be hard to find serial killers and serial pedophiles that weren't aborted because of abortion not being legal.
  - CamperBob2 5y ago
    We can only begin to judge people as individuals once they have gained agency and self-awareness. If we're going to turn the argument into a contest of silly clichés, then how do I know whether a given fetus is going to grow up to become the next Jobs or the next Hitler? You can't define a clump of cells as "good," "evil," or, indeed, as "human." Your own holy book makes no attempt at doing so. If you insist on enforcing your unsupported opinion at gunpoint, it can only happen at the cost of our own free will... just as seen here.
- anonymousab 5y ago
  > Or it will just cause the women to get abortions elsewhere Some will, but some won't or can't, and for many of the supporters of that law, any number >=1 is a success. > or let the kids grow up in homes that can't support them. The general argument at that point is that life/society is punishing the parents and family for being immoral or irresponsible, which is kept separate from the goal of saving lives/enforcing punishment by preventing abortion. In other words, the quality of those lives (or lack thereof) thereafter is seen an unrelated concern. > What it's more likely to accomplish is to make Texas even more republican I wouldn't say it's planned but I think Republicans are quite happy with an outcome that creates more Republicans.
cforrester 5y ago
This shot across the bow certainly is a good reminder for advocates of abortion access rights not to become complacent, as progress can be undone. I'm hopeful that it can act as a catalyst for advocates in the region. Extremist actions like this often create new advocates, as well as drawing external attention. There are already groups mobilizing from without and within to help Texan women who want or need an abortion, and conversely, groups hoping to take advantage of this law to target those women for what I would consider to be legal harassment. It seems like more of a gamble than you might be thinking.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  You automatically assume abortion is progress.
  - edgyquant 5y ago
    No. Not forcing women to use black market methods of abortion is progress. They happen regardless.
  - cforrester 5y ago
    Can you explain exactly what you were trying to accomplish with this comment? Government noninterference in access to abortion services provided by licensed medical practitioners meets my definition of social progress. If you feel the need to distill that down to "abortion is progress," I'm comfortable with that. Abortion is progress because it means that women have access to abortion that is less obstructed by non-medical interference.
pkulak 5y ago
No one is pro abortion.
- standardUser 5y ago
  I am pro-abortion.
  - pkulak 5y ago
    The more abortions the better?
    - standardUser 5y ago
      I believe that there are many people not getting abortions who would benefit significantly from getting abortions, so in that sense I can see more abortions as a positive thing.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
s17n 5y ago
Actually, its closer to 40% of republicans are women, and dropping. The anti-abortion stance of the party is probably one reason for this decline.
tialaramex 5y ago
> several dozen children will be saved (due to inability to get abortions) Believing something doesn't actually make it true. Mother Nature is unaffected by your conceits, even if a crowd of thousands are cheering you on, certain you can fly, your attempt to soar from the roof of the building up into the sky will result in falling to your death 'cos she doesn't give a shit. They aren't "saving children" by forcing these pregnancies to go ahead except in the same sense they'd be "saving chickens" by enforcing more intensive factory farming techniques like debeaking and cages (also legal in Texas). It seems to me that under the usual framework in which lawsuits are able to go ahead unburdened by judicial preflight the consequence of these lawsuits when the whole framework is found to be unconstitutional is that those who sued, and perhaps those who sponsored the bill, eat the costs of those defending the suits, such as ongoing child maintenance burden from anyone who can show they were either sued or the threat of suit caused them to go through with a pregnancy that would otherwise have been aborted. That is, I would assume that "pro-life" groups in Texas and those who support them should expect to be paying for baby food, diapers, kid's clothes, school supplies and eventually college for at least dozens and maybe thousands of children over the expected 12-18 month life of this bill. In the medium term, we've seen in countries where abortion is outlawed, the nature of modern technology is that the real consequences of that hit home very directly. Rich women of course "go on a trip" to have their abortion safely somewhere with legal abortion, but everybody else is obliged to take matters into their own hands, with too often deadly results. Consider the Republic of Ireland. Its people were given a free vote on the matter and decided to amend their constitution to provide abortion, mostly in the first trimester although also in some other cases. Of course the US doesn't have a working mechanism to fix its constitution. Too bad, get one or get a fresh system of government and start from scratch.
unclebucknasty 5y ago
5. A trojan horse that uses an emotionally charged issue to cultivate an appetite for "justifiable authoritarianism" and open violation of Constitutional rights.

flailingroof 5y ago

2. Or it will just cause the women to get abortions elsewhere, or let the kids grow up in homes that can't support them. Not to mention the extra loads of single moms (or dads). No one will be "saved". What it's more likely to accomplish is to make Texas even more republican, and to make the US appear even more crazy to the outside world.

gjsman-1000 5y ago
Adoption is an option, and you have no idea who that child could become. Steve Jobs was given up for adoption because abortion wasn’t legal at the time.
- cobalt 5y ago
  what about the billions of people already on this planet who are not in such a lucky position?
- standardUser 5y ago
  We also have no idea who the 15% of all pregnancies that end in miscarriages "could become" but we don't obsess over it because pregnancy never has been and never will be the guarantee of a fully formed independent human being. Not in humans, not in any species.
- all2 5y ago
  I have an inkling as to why this comment is being downvoted, but I'd love to see some actual responses to it that refute or at least engage with the claim that "adoption is an option".
- falcolas 5y ago
  Adoption still places the parents under the duress of the medical bills up to the point of adoption, nor does it address the extreme physical duress it places the mother under. Additionally, it does not address cases of rape, incest, pregnancies which have a high chance of killing the mother, or children with severe defects (who are likely to remain in foster homes, in the average-to-good case).
- mcphage 5y ago
  Steve Jobs was also the child of Syrian immigrants, so I’m not really sure he’s the person you should be trotting out in situations like these.
- belltaco 5y ago
  It won't be hard to find serial killers and serial pedophiles that weren't aborted because of abortion not being legal.
- CamperBob2 5y ago
  We can only begin to judge people as individuals once they have gained agency and self-awareness. If we're going to turn the argument into a contest of silly clichés, then how do I know whether a given fetus is going to grow up to become the next Jobs or the next Hitler? You can't define a clump of cells as "good," "evil," or, indeed, as "human." Your own holy book makes no attempt at doing so. If you insist on enforcing your unsupported opinion at gunpoint, it can only happen at the cost of our own free will... just as seen here.
anonymousab 5y ago
> Or it will just cause the women to get abortions elsewhere Some will, but some won't or can't, and for many of the supporters of that law, any number >=1 is a success. > or let the kids grow up in homes that can't support them. The general argument at that point is that life/society is punishing the parents and family for being immoral or irresponsible, which is kept separate from the goal of saving lives/enforcing punishment by preventing abortion. In other words, the quality of those lives (or lack thereof) thereafter is seen an unrelated concern. > What it's more likely to accomplish is to make Texas even more republican I wouldn't say it's planned but I think Republicans are quite happy with an outcome that creates more Republicans.

cforrester 5y ago

This shot across the bow certainly is a good reminder for advocates of abortion access rights not to become complacent, as progress can be undone. I'm hopeful that it can act as a catalyst for advocates in the region. Extremist actions like this often create new advocates, as well as drawing external attention. There are already groups mobilizing from without and within to help Texan women who want or need an abortion, and conversely, groups hoping to take advantage of this law to target those women for what I would consider to be legal harassment. It seems like more of a gamble than you might be thinking.

gjsman-1000 5y ago
You automatically assume abortion is progress.
- edgyquant 5y ago
  No. Not forcing women to use black market methods of abortion is progress. They happen regardless.
- cforrester 5y ago
  Can you explain exactly what you were trying to accomplish with this comment? Government noninterference in access to abortion services provided by licensed medical practitioners meets my definition of social progress. If you feel the need to distill that down to "abortion is progress," I'm comfortable with that. Abortion is progress because it means that women have access to abortion that is less obstructed by non-medical interference.

pkulak 5y ago

No one is pro abortion.

standardUser 5y ago
I am pro-abortion.
- pkulak 5y ago
  The more abortions the better?
  - standardUser 5y ago
    I believe that there are many people not getting abortions who would benefit significantly from getting abortions, so in that sense I can see more abortions as a positive thing.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]

s17n 5y ago

Actually, its closer to 40% of republicans are women, and dropping. The anti-abortion stance of the party is probably one reason for this decline.

tialaramex 5y ago

> several dozen children will be saved (due to inability to get abortions) Believing something doesn't actually make it true. Mother Nature is unaffected by your conceits, even if a crowd of thousands are cheering you on, certain you can fly, your attempt to soar from the roof of the building up into the sky will result in falling to your death 'cos she doesn't give a shit. They aren't "saving children" by forcing these pregnancies to go ahead except in the same sense they'd be "saving chickens" by enforcing more intensive factory farming techniques like debeaking and cages (also legal in Texas). It seems to me that under the usual framework in which lawsuits are able to go ahead unburdened by judicial preflight the consequence of these lawsuits when the whole framework is found to be unconstitutional is that those who sued, and perhaps those who sponsored the bill, eat the costs of those defending the suits, such as ongoing child maintenance burden from anyone who can show they were either sued or the threat of suit caused them to go through with a pregnancy that would otherwise have been aborted. That is, I would assume that "pro-life" groups in Texas and those who support them should expect to be paying for baby food, diapers, kid's clothes, school supplies and eventually college for at least dozens and maybe thousands of children over the expected 12-18 month life of this bill. In the medium term, we've seen in countries where abortion is outlawed, the nature of modern technology is that the real consequences of that hit home very directly. Rich women of course "go on a trip" to have their abortion safely somewhere with legal abortion, but everybody else is obliged to take matters into their own hands, with too often deadly results. Consider the Republic of Ireland. Its people were given a free vote on the matter and decided to amend their constitution to provide abortion, mostly in the first trimester although also in some other cases. Of course the US doesn't have a working mechanism to fix its constitution. Too bad, get one or get a fresh system of government and start from scratch.

unclebucknasty 5y ago

5. A trojan horse that uses an emotionally charged issue to cultivate an appetite for "justifiable authoritarianism" and open violation of Constitutional rights.