4 ms·

Flowers are relatively easy to grow in a greenhouse. Is really it economically feasible to fly them from other continent?

s5300 5y ago
Yup - economies of scale + cheap labor. We ship a lot of animal products (I think medium sized fish and chicken were some of the examples) to entirely different countries to have them processed and then sent back to us. I've been completely amazed at seeing assembly lines in things as simple as sardine canning factories. Dozens upon dozens of workers literally just shoving sardines in cans, and they aren't sold for much. The tins actually cost more than the sardines going in them. Absolute dirt cheap wages, quite depressing to think about as somebody from the US That said though, the domestic US flower industry could be potentially ripe for disruption if somebody wanted to front the money to do so.
- SergeAx 5y ago
  Chicken is dirt cheap, like $2/kg wholesale. Price of air freight is about the same on large long contracts and twice of that over the counter. Hauling chicken two ways will increase a final product price at least threefold. Sorry, I can't believe it. BTW, fish are mostly canned right in the sea on board of fishing vessel or on a bigger factory ship nearby.
  - s5300 5y ago
    Some articles in no explicit order with some fairly visible biases but: https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2014/03/chicken-from-china-your-seafood-is-already-being-processed-there/ https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2014/03/chicken-from-china-yo... https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-seafood-industry-vulnerable-to-tariffs-aimed-at-china-1533812400 https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-seafood-industry-vulnerable... https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2016/12/05/tale-fish-two-countries https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2016/12/05/tale-fish-two-cou... https://boingboing.net/2018/09/14/usda-approves-shipping-slaught.html https://boingboing.net/2018/09/14/usda-approves-shipping-sla... https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/china-chicken-reshipped/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/china-chicken-reshipped/ https://weuseit2.com/blogs/we-use-it-2/shipping-live-hogs-poultry-to-china-to-process-and-send-back-to-usa https://weuseit2.com/blogs/we-use-it-2/shipping-live-hogs-po... I'm unfortunately still not able to remember for the keywords of the one good reputable article I know of that details most of what is shipped for processing and back to multiple countries and the margins involved, but it's out there if you ever feel the need to dig into it. I am aware of the fish being canned on board vessels and factory ships. There are still a large amount that aren't. Here is one video demonstrating a large amount of people being involved in the simple canning of cheap sardines... It's definitely much better and more orderly than another video based out of a somewhat open-air assembly line in Portugal I believe. https://youtu.be/WPpFjl8qeM4 https://youtu.be/WPpFjl8qeM4 I could however be completely wrong about all of this. There is some information on the internet that is not amazingly easy to find and verify. When you think about the fact there are many countries with large populaces that are still treated as literal slave labour though and also lesser quality standards involved, so more ability to quite literally cram a shipping container to the brim with whatever they want, margins are incredibly slim, but still money is being made.
    - SergeAx 5y ago
      Thanks for the links! As I scanned them briefly, air freight is never mentioned, and sea transportation is explicitly mentioned couple of times. This is still crazy (frozen containers has to be powered 24/7), but not unbelievable crazy.
kzrdude 5y ago
My memory from the flight hiatus in europe 2010 (The icelandic vocano) was that roses were out of stock - couldn't be flown from east africa due to the situation. Random link to establish some basis facts for kenyan rose industry: https://aishaflowers.com/blog/30-why-roses-from-kenya-stands-out/ https://aishaflowers.com/blog/30-why-roses-from-kenya-stands...
- bellyfullofbac 5y ago
  The start of the pandemic/lockdowns also highlighted the flower global trade: https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-flower-industry-crash/ https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-flower-industry-cras... , including the mention of Kenya. DDGing "Covid flower industry", there also newer articles talking about the state of the it as lockdowns in Europe eased.
PeterisP 5y ago
We ship in lots of perishable agricultural products that in terms of value per weight or value per container are much cheaper than flowers, they are in the same ballpark as fruit and berries. I recall some UK study claiming that even purely in terms of carbon footprint it's more effective to fly in greens from south rather than heat up greenhouses to grow them locally during winter.
- lathyrus_long 5y ago
  Yeah, though with some interesting exceptions like Dutch orchid greenhouses. Foreign countries with cheap labor and suitable climates have a big natural advantage, but intensive scientific agriculture (to make best use of the expensive greenhouse space) and automation can apparently overcome that in some cases.

s5300 5y ago

Yup - economies of scale + cheap labor. We ship a lot of animal products (I think medium sized fish and chicken were some of the examples) to entirely different countries to have them processed and then sent back to us. I've been completely amazed at seeing assembly lines in things as simple as sardine canning factories. Dozens upon dozens of workers literally just shoving sardines in cans, and they aren't sold for much. The tins actually cost more than the sardines going in them. Absolute dirt cheap wages, quite depressing to think about as somebody from the US That said though, the domestic US flower industry could be potentially ripe for disruption if somebody wanted to front the money to do so.

SergeAx 5y ago
Chicken is dirt cheap, like $2/kg wholesale. Price of air freight is about the same on large long contracts and twice of that over the counter. Hauling chicken two ways will increase a final product price at least threefold. Sorry, I can't believe it. BTW, fish are mostly canned right in the sea on board of fishing vessel or on a bigger factory ship nearby.
- s5300 5y ago
  Some articles in no explicit order with some fairly visible biases but: https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2014/03/chicken-from-china-your-seafood-is-already-being-processed-there/ https://www.foodsafetynews.com/2014/03/chicken-from-china-yo... https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-seafood-industry-vulnerable-to-tariffs-aimed-at-china-1533812400 https://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-seafood-industry-vulnerable... https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2016/12/05/tale-fish-two-countries https://www.usda.gov/media/blog/2016/12/05/tale-fish-two-cou... https://boingboing.net/2018/09/14/usda-approves-shipping-slaught.html https://boingboing.net/2018/09/14/usda-approves-shipping-sla... https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/china-chicken-reshipped/ https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/china-chicken-reshipped/ https://weuseit2.com/blogs/we-use-it-2/shipping-live-hogs-poultry-to-china-to-process-and-send-back-to-usa https://weuseit2.com/blogs/we-use-it-2/shipping-live-hogs-po... I'm unfortunately still not able to remember for the keywords of the one good reputable article I know of that details most of what is shipped for processing and back to multiple countries and the margins involved, but it's out there if you ever feel the need to dig into it. I am aware of the fish being canned on board vessels and factory ships. There are still a large amount that aren't. Here is one video demonstrating a large amount of people being involved in the simple canning of cheap sardines... It's definitely much better and more orderly than another video based out of a somewhat open-air assembly line in Portugal I believe. https://youtu.be/WPpFjl8qeM4 https://youtu.be/WPpFjl8qeM4 I could however be completely wrong about all of this. There is some information on the internet that is not amazingly easy to find and verify. When you think about the fact there are many countries with large populaces that are still treated as literal slave labour though and also lesser quality standards involved, so more ability to quite literally cram a shipping container to the brim with whatever they want, margins are incredibly slim, but still money is being made.
  - SergeAx 5y ago
    Thanks for the links! As I scanned them briefly, air freight is never mentioned, and sea transportation is explicitly mentioned couple of times. This is still crazy (frozen containers has to be powered 24/7), but not unbelievable crazy.

kzrdude 5y ago

My memory from the flight hiatus in europe 2010 (The icelandic vocano) was that roses were out of stock - couldn't be flown from east africa due to the situation. Random link to establish some basis facts for kenyan rose industry: https://aishaflowers.com/blog/30-why-roses-from-kenya-stands-out/ https://aishaflowers.com/blog/30-why-roses-from-kenya-stands...

bellyfullofbac 5y ago
The start of the pandemic/lockdowns also highlighted the flower global trade: https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-flower-industry-crash/ https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2020-flower-industry-cras... , including the mention of Kenya. DDGing "Covid flower industry", there also newer articles talking about the state of the it as lockdowns in Europe eased.

PeterisP 5y ago

We ship in lots of perishable agricultural products that in terms of value per weight or value per container are much cheaper than flowers, they are in the same ballpark as fruit and berries. I recall some UK study claiming that even purely in terms of carbon footprint it's more effective to fly in greens from south rather than heat up greenhouses to grow them locally during winter.

lathyrus_long 5y ago
Yeah, though with some interesting exceptions like Dutch orchid greenhouses. Foreign countries with cheap labor and suitable climates have a big natural advantage, but intensive scientific agriculture (to make best use of the expensive greenhouse space) and automation can apparently overcome that in some cases.