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As a massive gearhead I am absolutely in favor of this exception. Lots of practical and pragmatic arguments are being made here like the fact that very few of t

As a massive gearhead I am absolutely in favor of this exception. Lots of practical and pragmatic arguments are being made here like the fact that very few of these cars are sold and they spend most of their lives in a garage, but allow me to make an emotional argument. I got to drive a Ferrari a about 2 years ago, and after that drive I am convinced that the only way to understand why these cars is to drive them. Sure the look insane and the spec sheet is equally insane, but the thing I took away most is all the little sensations you get while driving it. The exhaust crackle, the whipping acceleration when the turbo spools, the rev jump when you downshift. All these little pieces of magic will be lost if supercars have to go electric. Yes they will all retain the same power and handling, but when I drove that Ferrari the most fun I had wasn't when I was flooring it but when I was just putting around town, shifting between 2nd and 3rd gear and hearing the exhaust crackle and engine rev. After my drive I was left with chills down my spine and a determination to one day have one in my garage. I really really hope Ferrari and Lamborghini get this exception, it will be one of the saddest days in the automotive world when these automakers have to put their V8's and V12's to pasture.

jacquesm 5y ago
The ones that have been made will remain. And besides that the fuel distribution network will at some point likely diminish to the point that driving one of these will not just be un-economical, it will be impossible. It's a matter of time before there will be environmental zones in between wherever you are and wherever you want to go that make it impossible to use an ICE. So quite likely, ban or not, the ICE will die out completely. I've re-built a 24 year old car with an ICE and I fully expect it to be my last car, at 56 I see no point in buying something new and if and when I can't/won't drive it we'll have a nice paperweight.
- generalizations 5y ago
  > And besides that the fuel distribution network will at some point likely diminish to the point that driving one of these will not just be un-economical, it will be impossible. I'm very skeptical that the gasoline fuel distribution network is going away in our lifetimes. There's too much of the rest of our lives and infrastructure that depend in some way on the energy density of gasoline.
  - relativ575 5y ago
    Europe ban new ICE vehicles in 2030s, so they will disappear completely in 2060s or so. I doubt gas station will still be a thing to the consumers by then, even if industrial use may still exist in some capacity.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    These things tend to have economies of scale and tipping points, once you lose the economy of scale and/or reach certain tipping points then suddenly operating a gas station will end up being unprofitable unless you charge a huge amount per liter/gallon and then there are even fewer people that will gas up. Once you get into a feedback loop like that the end can come quite quickly. Ironically, the developing countries will likely reach that point much later than the developed world, so maybe those Ferrari's will have their ultimate destination in unexpected places. That would be kind of funny. More likely though they will just be what they are today as well: signs of conspicuous consumption rather than to be driven. And for that purpose they may as well sit in their heated garages just like they do today. Typically those cars have < 30K on the odometer, it is pretty rare to see one that is in use as a daily driver and when they are the bills to keep them running are quite heavenly. A friend of mine has an F12, he was very happy with it, right up to his first major service and then he could count out how much that car costs per kilometer driven. That's before you get into little details like depreciation. He's not quite as happy with it today, but likely if he holds on to it for a while he'll sell it with a profit anyway, over the longer term they tend to gain in value.
    - generalizations 5y ago
      The problem I see with electric is the energy density, and the difficulties that come with that. Battery tech has come a long way, but it still has a long way to go. The other trouble is the longevity. I like buying used cars for ~$3k with 100k+ miles on them: pick the right one, and it'll last you another 60k+ miles for the cost of tires and DIY oil changes. From what I understand, current battery tech requires you to buy replacement batteries well before that point, and those batteries are ~$10k. Back of the napkin, that's $1k more than the cost of the ICE car, its maintenance, and the gas to drive it. It's not just cars, either. Welding - fairly fundamental to construction these days - depends on the availability of cheap power, usually in the form of gas generators. We'll be in a bind of gas isn't available anymore. Not to mention all the other applications for grid-independent electricity generation, which generally depends on gasoline or diesel. You may be right, and we'll hit that tipping point. If we do, though, I think we'll have a lot of second-order effects that bite us hard.
BashiBazouk 5y ago
The problem is if Tesla and Porsche can rack up noticeably better acceleration and lap times with electric, the masses will no longer equate those nuances with speed and buy the faster car. Much like a roaring Harley or the rumble of a sixties muscle car V8 is cool and all but no longer associated with performance like it once was. I do see the rich exception causing problems but I also think electric will out perform in the end and the problem is self solving...
- jacquesm 5y ago
  > Much like a roaring Harley or the rumble of a sixties muscle car V8 is cool and all but no longer associated with performance like it once was. They're not even cool, just a nuisance. There's too many of them to be cool. Not that the overgrown toddlers on their Harleys would realize this.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
mym1990 5y ago
The world changes and evolves, and nothing lasts forever. I have recently been wrestling with wanting a replica Superformance GT40 and also having this nagging feeling that I would be going in the wrong direction due to what is happening in the world, climate wise. All the super automotive companies will put out incredible electric products eventually, and we will come to marvel at those as well with time.
aloukissas 5y ago
+100 to all of this

jacquesm 5y ago

The ones that have been made will remain. And besides that the fuel distribution network will at some point likely diminish to the point that driving one of these will not just be un-economical, it will be impossible. It's a matter of time before there will be environmental zones in between wherever you are and wherever you want to go that make it impossible to use an ICE. So quite likely, ban or not, the ICE will die out completely. I've re-built a 24 year old car with an ICE and I fully expect it to be my last car, at 56 I see no point in buying something new and if and when I can't/won't drive it we'll have a nice paperweight.

generalizations 5y ago
> And besides that the fuel distribution network will at some point likely diminish to the point that driving one of these will not just be un-economical, it will be impossible. I'm very skeptical that the gasoline fuel distribution network is going away in our lifetimes. There's too much of the rest of our lives and infrastructure that depend in some way on the energy density of gasoline.
- relativ575 5y ago
  Europe ban new ICE vehicles in 2030s, so they will disappear completely in 2060s or so. I doubt gas station will still be a thing to the consumers by then, even if industrial use may still exist in some capacity.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  These things tend to have economies of scale and tipping points, once you lose the economy of scale and/or reach certain tipping points then suddenly operating a gas station will end up being unprofitable unless you charge a huge amount per liter/gallon and then there are even fewer people that will gas up. Once you get into a feedback loop like that the end can come quite quickly. Ironically, the developing countries will likely reach that point much later than the developed world, so maybe those Ferrari's will have their ultimate destination in unexpected places. That would be kind of funny. More likely though they will just be what they are today as well: signs of conspicuous consumption rather than to be driven. And for that purpose they may as well sit in their heated garages just like they do today. Typically those cars have < 30K on the odometer, it is pretty rare to see one that is in use as a daily driver and when they are the bills to keep them running are quite heavenly. A friend of mine has an F12, he was very happy with it, right up to his first major service and then he could count out how much that car costs per kilometer driven. That's before you get into little details like depreciation. He's not quite as happy with it today, but likely if he holds on to it for a while he'll sell it with a profit anyway, over the longer term they tend to gain in value.
  - generalizations 5y ago
    The problem I see with electric is the energy density, and the difficulties that come with that. Battery tech has come a long way, but it still has a long way to go. The other trouble is the longevity. I like buying used cars for ~$3k with 100k+ miles on them: pick the right one, and it'll last you another 60k+ miles for the cost of tires and DIY oil changes. From what I understand, current battery tech requires you to buy replacement batteries well before that point, and those batteries are ~$10k. Back of the napkin, that's $1k more than the cost of the ICE car, its maintenance, and the gas to drive it. It's not just cars, either. Welding - fairly fundamental to construction these days - depends on the availability of cheap power, usually in the form of gas generators. We'll be in a bind of gas isn't available anymore. Not to mention all the other applications for grid-independent electricity generation, which generally depends on gasoline or diesel. You may be right, and we'll hit that tipping point. If we do, though, I think we'll have a lot of second-order effects that bite us hard.

BashiBazouk 5y ago

The problem is if Tesla and Porsche can rack up noticeably better acceleration and lap times with electric, the masses will no longer equate those nuances with speed and buy the faster car. Much like a roaring Harley or the rumble of a sixties muscle car V8 is cool and all but no longer associated with performance like it once was. I do see the rich exception causing problems but I also think electric will out perform in the end and the problem is self solving...

jacquesm 5y ago
> Much like a roaring Harley or the rumble of a sixties muscle car V8 is cool and all but no longer associated with performance like it once was. They're not even cool, just a nuisance. There's too many of them to be cool. Not that the overgrown toddlers on their Harleys would realize this.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

mym1990 5y ago

The world changes and evolves, and nothing lasts forever. I have recently been wrestling with wanting a replica Superformance GT40 and also having this nagging feeling that I would be going in the wrong direction due to what is happening in the world, climate wise. All the super automotive companies will put out incredible electric products eventually, and we will come to marvel at those as well with time.

aloukissas 5y ago

+100 to all of this