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Yes, and the ultra wealthy will keep flying private jets too while the brunt of the sacrifice will be done by the plebs. They should also be allowed to own mega

Yes, and the ultra wealthy will keep flying private jets too while the brunt of the sacrifice will be done by the plebs. They should also be allowed to own mega yachts while we try to limit the effects of sea freight and cruise ships on the atmosphere. Sorry, some things matter for what they symbolize more than their absolute effect. It's easy to say that the sum total of all carbon emissions by the wealthy are a drop in the bucket compared to the sum total of all the plebs, but if the plutocracy has no skin in the game then I won't reduce my consumption lifestyle for their benefit.

Karunamon 5y ago
You're reducing it for the benefit of all - which is not even relevant here because it's only about new engines. This crab bucket mentality needs to end. The atmosphere doesn't care about where the carbon comes from, only its presence. Refusing to do your part because someone else isn't doing theirs is not a sustainable, or moral, mindset.
flyinglizard 5y ago
If you’re an average American then you already pollute many times what an average global world person does. Perhaps it’s better to focus on the essence and not on the optics.
sharken 5y ago
Am on the same page here, setting up lenient rules for the rich sends the wrong signal. There should be no exception to the rule and Italian carmakers should get started on the transition away from combustion engine today. We're all in this together, you don't get to opt out just because you are wealthy.
- jacquesm 5y ago
  Fiat (also to a large extent an Exor (Agnelli) property will definitely make that move and is by far the largest Italian car maker. This won't move the needle from a pollution perspective but an exemption simply sends the wrong signal. What's good enough for the swine should be good enough for Jupiter as well in this case, to turn a nice proverb upside down.
cinntaile 5y ago
But their mega yachts are subject to the same rules and regulations as regular yachts no? As long as they pay for their resource consumption just like the rest of us, I don't see why we need different rules for them.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- andrepd 5y ago
  Yachts, mega or not, are an insulting waste of resources. Here I am, paying near 2€ per litre of gas, subject to a Pigovian tax, which imposes real hardships on people who earn poor wages and rely on their car for commuting. Yet no such sacrifices are demanded of the super-rich, which consume as many resources as 100s of "plebs". Sorry, that doesn't sit well with me.
  - cinntaile 5y ago
    Everyone, regardless of whether they are rich or poor, in your country is paying €2 per litre though? Unless you have tanking cards as a tax benefit so that your gas can be free as some countries have but that's just pure madness imo :P Resource consumption is highly correlated to disposable income, so the only way to fix this as I see it would be to impose ever higher taxes on higher incomes to even out the differences? Do you have a different solution to this problem?

Karunamon 5y ago

You're reducing it for the benefit of all - which is not even relevant here because it's only about new engines. This crab bucket mentality needs to end. The atmosphere doesn't care about where the carbon comes from, only its presence. Refusing to do your part because someone else isn't doing theirs is not a sustainable, or moral, mindset.

flyinglizard 5y ago

If you’re an average American then you already pollute many times what an average global world person does. Perhaps it’s better to focus on the essence and not on the optics.

sharken 5y ago

Am on the same page here, setting up lenient rules for the rich sends the wrong signal. There should be no exception to the rule and Italian carmakers should get started on the transition away from combustion engine today. We're all in this together, you don't get to opt out just because you are wealthy.

jacquesm 5y ago
Fiat (also to a large extent an Exor (Agnelli) property will definitely make that move and is by far the largest Italian car maker. This won't move the needle from a pollution perspective but an exemption simply sends the wrong signal. What's good enough for the swine should be good enough for Jupiter as well in this case, to turn a nice proverb upside down.

cinntaile 5y ago

But their mega yachts are subject to the same rules and regulations as regular yachts no? As long as they pay for their resource consumption just like the rest of us, I don't see why we need different rules for them.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
andrepd 5y ago
Yachts, mega or not, are an insulting waste of resources. Here I am, paying near 2€ per litre of gas, subject to a Pigovian tax, which imposes real hardships on people who earn poor wages and rely on their car for commuting. Yet no such sacrifices are demanded of the super-rich, which consume as many resources as 100s of "plebs". Sorry, that doesn't sit well with me.
- cinntaile 5y ago
  Everyone, regardless of whether they are rich or poor, in your country is paying €2 per litre though? Unless you have tanking cards as a tax benefit so that your gas can be free as some countries have but that's just pure madness imo :P Resource consumption is highly correlated to disposable income, so the only way to fix this as I see it would be to impose ever higher taxes on higher incomes to even out the differences? Do you have a different solution to this problem?