4 ms·

Because it is not a crime. You can order whatever you want unless a payment is made and product accepted a legal transaction hasn't occured. Missed items, unc

by ipaddr 5y ago

Because it is not a crime. You can order whatever you want unless a payment is made and product accepted a legal transaction hasn't occured. Missed items, uncooked food, poor quality are common reasons not to accept and send back. You can decide to decline the transaction at any point. What businesses do is make the person pay first. Rarely does a fastfood worker take my order.. stop.. makes my food and then asks me to pay. They take my money serve the next person, I wait to get called. A drive through is different and they get very low rates of drivers ordering only to drive away. Businesses have found a way to deal with this issue.

dataflow 5y ago
All the examples you mention are those where the customer actually intended to pay if the meal is properly cooked, and thus would have if there were no issues. Not ones where they place an order intending not to make the payment they promise to. Are you sure that isn't a crime? It sounds like fraud to me (or some other crime) but I'm not a lawyer. The problem is likely that distinguishing these for prosecution/conviction, but that's probably a similarity with wage theft, not a dissimilarity.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
SiVal 5y ago
"You can order whatever you want unless a payment is made and product accepted a legal transaction hasn't occured." It may or may not be a crime depending on intent, but a transaction is not the issue. It is breach of contract. Laws obviously vary around the world, but the US Uniform Commercial Code is probably typical. The restaurant has made an offer. The customer has accepted it. There is agreed-to "consideration" (value) to be provided by both sides. If the restaurant does what they said they would do you, having accepted the "offer" by making an order, are bound to do what you said you would do (pay the price that you knew was the price when you accepted the offer.) Just increase the dollar amounts by a large enough factor, and you'll see it. A company sells widgets. I order a million dollars worth, items that can't simply be put back in stock and resold to others. They make them, but I don't pick them up. I'm not arguing that they didn't do their part by making defective items. I'm (probably) not required to pick them up, but I am required to pay what I agreed. You are saying "no transaction occurred", but that's not at issue. The company will (rightly) sue me for breach of contract. It's the same for fast food except that the static friction of legal costs vastly overpowers the scale of recovery from the breach of contract for each instance of no-show. But if a single order for $10,000 (catering a company picnic) is not picked up, you get past the friction, and the restaurant will sue for breach of contract.
- ipaddr 5y ago
  Big orders require pre-payment. If no stock is available the customer should expect a wait. Even a pizza shop will require a credit card for 20 pizzas. If someone is selling 1 million dollars worth of widgets and the buyer is unknown prepayment is required. If known and a valid purchase order is signed the customer usually has net30/60 to pay if they don't there might be a lawsuit or a black mark on their credit file with collectors calling. Does it ever make sense to pay hundreds to win that 2 dollars back? Your employees waste more when meals don't turn out perfect. The cost of food to the restaurant includes the wasted food (usually from employee mistakes) and those are reflected in the prices.
  - SiVal 5y ago
    "Big orders require pre-payment." That's neither criminal (ex: fraud) nor civil (contract) law. That's just one of countless things a party may or may not choose to do as personal/corporate policy. I might ask for a downpayment, or a full prepayment or a credit card or collateral or just trust you or whatever. It's irrelevant to the question of criminal culpability or civil liability. Unfortunately, you can be at risk even when you are in the right because of practical aspects of recovery such as legal costs, unpredictability of court outcomes, ability of the other party to pay even if they lose in court, etc. So there are extra-legal (not illegal, just private policy) methods of reducing the risk. Whether you choose to avail yourself of such policies or not (including even getting the contract in writing) has no relevance to the legal question of whether a contract was breached.
MikeTheGreat 5y ago
"A drive through is different and they get very low rates of drivers ordering only to drive away." I hadn't realized this until I read your post, but most (not all, but most) drive-throughs that I've been to recently seem to be engineered to prevent people from ordering and then driving away. "Engineered" like civil engineering, not social engineering. They feature a single lane with curbs on either side, typically near the edge of the property (so frequently near a fence or wall, etc). I suppose the person could order, pull through, and then drive past the payment window and keep going, but other than that it's definitely not easy to leave that single, bounded lane once you're in it.

by ipaddr 5y ago

dataflow 5y ago

All the examples you mention are those where the customer actually intended to pay if the meal is properly cooked, and thus would have if there were no issues. Not ones where they place an order intending not to make the payment they promise to. Are you sure that isn't a crime? It sounds like fraud to me (or some other crime) but I'm not a lawyer. The problem is likely that distinguishing these for prosecution/conviction, but that's probably a similarity with wage theft, not a dissimilarity.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

SiVal 5y ago

"You can order whatever you want unless a payment is made and product accepted a legal transaction hasn't occured." It may or may not be a crime depending on intent, but a transaction is not the issue. It is breach of contract. Laws obviously vary around the world, but the US Uniform Commercial Code is probably typical. The restaurant has made an offer. The customer has accepted it. There is agreed-to "consideration" (value) to be provided by both sides. If the restaurant does what they said they would do you, having accepted the "offer" by making an order, are bound to do what you said you would do (pay the price that you knew was the price when you accepted the offer.) Just increase the dollar amounts by a large enough factor, and you'll see it. A company sells widgets. I order a million dollars worth, items that can't simply be put back in stock and resold to others. They make them, but I don't pick them up. I'm not arguing that they didn't do their part by making defective items. I'm (probably) not required to pick them up, but I am required to pay what I agreed. You are saying "no transaction occurred", but that's not at issue. The company will (rightly) sue me for breach of contract. It's the same for fast food except that the static friction of legal costs vastly overpowers the scale of recovery from the breach of contract for each instance of no-show. But if a single order for $10,000 (catering a company picnic) is not picked up, you get past the friction, and the restaurant will sue for breach of contract.

ipaddr 5y ago
Big orders require pre-payment. If no stock is available the customer should expect a wait. Even a pizza shop will require a credit card for 20 pizzas. If someone is selling 1 million dollars worth of widgets and the buyer is unknown prepayment is required. If known and a valid purchase order is signed the customer usually has net30/60 to pay if they don't there might be a lawsuit or a black mark on their credit file with collectors calling. Does it ever make sense to pay hundreds to win that 2 dollars back? Your employees waste more when meals don't turn out perfect. The cost of food to the restaurant includes the wasted food (usually from employee mistakes) and those are reflected in the prices.
- SiVal 5y ago
  "Big orders require pre-payment." That's neither criminal (ex: fraud) nor civil (contract) law. That's just one of countless things a party may or may not choose to do as personal/corporate policy. I might ask for a downpayment, or a full prepayment or a credit card or collateral or just trust you or whatever. It's irrelevant to the question of criminal culpability or civil liability. Unfortunately, you can be at risk even when you are in the right because of practical aspects of recovery such as legal costs, unpredictability of court outcomes, ability of the other party to pay even if they lose in court, etc. So there are extra-legal (not illegal, just private policy) methods of reducing the risk. Whether you choose to avail yourself of such policies or not (including even getting the contract in writing) has no relevance to the legal question of whether a contract was breached.

MikeTheGreat 5y ago

"A drive through is different and they get very low rates of drivers ordering only to drive away." I hadn't realized this until I read your post, but most (not all, but most) drive-throughs that I've been to recently seem to be engineered to prevent people from ordering and then driving away. "Engineered" like civil engineering, not social engineering. They feature a single lane with curbs on either side, typically near the edge of the property (so frequently near a fence or wall, etc). I suppose the person could order, pull through, and then drive past the payment window and keep going, but other than that it's definitely not easy to leave that single, bounded lane once you're in it.