3 ms·

This isn’t about computers. It’s about all the other things that have chips in them. Look up SiC chips in particular, they’re in everything.

by fny 5y ago

PeterisP 5y ago
The simple things with chips in them don't (or shouldn't) have the expected growth of computing power that makes parts obsolete. Like, if a washing machine or a car's fuel injector needs some chips, we should be able to reuse chips from older washing machines and older fuel injectors which we generally throw out because of a mechanical failure with all their electronics intact, but currently it seems that all these chips get just discarded, no one cares about them.
- Gigachad 5y ago
  It would seem exceedingly difficult to reuse chips at scale. The software and pcb is deigned around one microcontroller in particular and it is not trivial to swap them out with others. So if I design my washing machine around a particular chip, I could order a million of them for 5 cent each, or I would have to: * somehow identify other models which have the chip * find 1 million of them about to be discarded * rip them open, desolder, collect these parts * discard the rest of the machine * do this for about 10 cents per washing machine combined with the fact that washing machines usually last a decade and will be dying out over a time period spread out over 10-20 years after manufacturing time. How on earth would it be possible to pull off and by that time, these chips will be very obsolete / impossible to order new ones.
  - ant6n 5y ago
    How about creating the standard for a small set of some sort of industrial raspberri pi, with a replacable (or flashable) ROM?
    - Gigachad 5y ago
      The cost and difficulty of this task is monumental and the rewards are so small. These chips literally cost cents and outside of global disasters, they are quite easy to buy in the millions. And it isn't just micro controllers that are out of stock basic passive components are missing as well. It would cost an absolute fortune to strip all of these parts off older machines. No one wants to pay $6000 for a washing machine made of scrap parts which may fail and are long since obsolete so they can no longer be reordered.
  - PeterisP 5y ago
    Well, you're assuming that the manufacturers would get involved with specific disassemblies, the realistic process would be that the current process of mass recycling random home appliances (which is mandatory at least where I live) when these appliances are ripped open to recycle e.g. metals would also include desoldering the electronic parts, sorting and testing them and putting them back into circulation. We don't do that, probably because it's far too expensive because disassembly is less automated than assembly, but a genuine shortage of core components (the set of which would not/should not change over 10-20 years) could be helped this way. A big assumption that I'm making is that you would be extract the exact same components from many different devices, so you can build a washing machine with a component supply that's part new components and part 'reused' from all kinds of older washing machines, fridges or cars or smart toasters or whatever. This IMHO is true for generic electronic components (which are quite cheap but still add up in volume) but might not hold for chips - however, my initial argument probably was that if "chips-for-not-so-powerful-appliances" currently are structured to not be interchangeable, then perhaps they should be.
Gigachad 5y ago
I'm looking at the supplier websites and trivial parts like 10 cent microcontrollers have over a year wait times. This is why I have been waiting for months to have the dryer I ordered and there is still no delivery date set. I would have no issues going out and buying the latest macbook right now but basic other products are missing.

This isn’t about computers. It’s about all the other things that have chips in them. Look up SiC chips in particular, they’re in everything.

by fny 5y ago

This isn’t about computers. It’s about all the other things that have chips in them. Look up SiC chips in particular, they’re in everything.

PeterisP 5y ago

The simple things with chips in them don't (or shouldn't) have the expected growth of computing power that makes parts obsolete. Like, if a washing machine or a car's fuel injector needs some chips, we should be able to reuse chips from older washing machines and older fuel injectors which we generally throw out because of a mechanical failure with all their electronics intact, but currently it seems that all these chips get just discarded, no one cares about them.

Gigachad 5y ago
It would seem exceedingly difficult to reuse chips at scale. The software and pcb is deigned around one microcontroller in particular and it is not trivial to swap them out with others. So if I design my washing machine around a particular chip, I could order a million of them for 5 cent each, or I would have to: * somehow identify other models which have the chip * find 1 million of them about to be discarded * rip them open, desolder, collect these parts * discard the rest of the machine * do this for about 10 cents per washing machine combined with the fact that washing machines usually last a decade and will be dying out over a time period spread out over 10-20 years after manufacturing time. How on earth would it be possible to pull off and by that time, these chips will be very obsolete / impossible to order new ones.
- ant6n 5y ago
  How about creating the standard for a small set of some sort of industrial raspberri pi, with a replacable (or flashable) ROM?
  - Gigachad 5y ago
    The cost and difficulty of this task is monumental and the rewards are so small. These chips literally cost cents and outside of global disasters, they are quite easy to buy in the millions. And it isn't just micro controllers that are out of stock basic passive components are missing as well. It would cost an absolute fortune to strip all of these parts off older machines. No one wants to pay $6000 for a washing machine made of scrap parts which may fail and are long since obsolete so they can no longer be reordered.
- PeterisP 5y ago
  Well, you're assuming that the manufacturers would get involved with specific disassemblies, the realistic process would be that the current process of mass recycling random home appliances (which is mandatory at least where I live) when these appliances are ripped open to recycle e.g. metals would also include desoldering the electronic parts, sorting and testing them and putting them back into circulation. We don't do that, probably because it's far too expensive because disassembly is less automated than assembly, but a genuine shortage of core components (the set of which would not/should not change over 10-20 years) could be helped this way. A big assumption that I'm making is that you would be extract the exact same components from many different devices, so you can build a washing machine with a component supply that's part new components and part 'reused' from all kinds of older washing machines, fridges or cars or smart toasters or whatever. This IMHO is true for generic electronic components (which are quite cheap but still add up in volume) but might not hold for chips - however, my initial argument probably was that if "chips-for-not-so-powerful-appliances" currently are structured to not be interchangeable, then perhaps they should be.

Gigachad 5y ago

I'm looking at the supplier websites and trivial parts like 10 cent microcontrollers have over a year wait times. This is why I have been waiting for months to have the dryer I ordered and there is still no delivery date set. I would have no issues going out and buying the latest macbook right now but basic other products are missing.