3 ms·

I don't get it. What are our ya yas? In what way is injuring or killing a person cathartic?

by warent 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
fossuser 5y ago
I agree - I found the writing to be the kind of thing that makes me immediately skeptical. A lot of fanciful connections that seem “smart”, but without much to back it up - it’s possible there’s truth to some of it, but someone could similarly argue a different reason and make it sound just as good. I suspect it’s overconfident in what the causes are and drawing more of a conclusion than what’s there.
nonameiguess 5y ago
To be perfectly clear, I am not in any way intending to advocate for the position that we should feel catharsis from injuring or killing people. But it's there. We are all descended from violent predators that got by in the world by killing other animals. A lot of people still do that for sport. Even just with human sport, perhaps you've never played a contact or combat sport where you directly hit other people. Whether or not it's right that it should be this way, I can assure you that it feels really good. I used to be a tank commander, and I guess I was lucky as hell to never have to kill someone myself, but I'll never quite forget my first commander at the armor school who would get us pumped up talking about when he graduated, he'd gone straight to Ramadi to replace a platoon leader who'd just been killed in action and how it made his dick hard to think about blowing up hospitals. The man was an absolute psychopath, but there is no denying a lot of people like that exist. The commander of my lead 2 tank had once shredded a man with a .50 cal from less than a hundred feet away and found it the most addictive thing he'd ever done. As the war started to wind down and normal units no longer got real combat assignments, he was determined to move into the Special Forces to stay in the game. That guy was never going to be normal again. Whether it is sports, actual combat, sexual dominance and sado-masochism, or even just extreme endurance athletes and alpine mountaineers putting their own bodies through hell, pain inflicted on others and pain inflicted on yourself can be quite addictive, and it is definitely better for society if we can find some way to do this ritually rather than by actually starting wars. Ideally not via human sacrifice, but you know, somehow.
- warent 5y ago
  I played full contact football and never felt anything pleasant from it. Nothing convinced me of what you were talking about except that I'd not considered sadomasochism in this context and now what you're saying makes sense. Sexual sadomasochism is experiencing some kind of torture in a safe, imaginary way. So other ritual violence works in a similar way. That comparison clicks for me. Thanks for the insight.
fsckboy 5y ago
this isn't a direct answer to your first question, but the people who go to burning man are probably familiar with the Rolling Stones album entitled "Get Your Ya Ya's Out" and since "ya" is a cry of agreement often used as a cheer, I always assumed it meant "group shout in celebration" and I don't think that's a big stretch as to your second question, humans have innate senses of violence as a reaction to certain stimuli, and also celebrations of victory whether in actual or symbolic combat so... can you seriously not see the emotional catharsis, or are you simply questioning it as being emotional and un-rational? I would add that to me--anthropomorphizing a little, emotions are rational: emotions were discovered by evolution as a good way to regulate behavior, and evolution is actually one of the most logical of processes.
- nonameiguess 5y ago
  Yeah, I was intentionally invoking the Rolling Stones, since the article mentions the Altamont incident where Meredith Hunter was killed by the Hell's Angels right in front of the stage as one of its examples. Might not be entirely clear to readers who aren't familiar with the Stones' back catalog.
  - fsckboy 5y ago
    just to tune up that sentence a little, Meredith Hunter was killed by a Hell's Angel after he drew a gun. There was beef. The Hell's Angel was tried and acquitted, self-defense.

I don't get it. What are our ya yas? In what way is injuring or killing a person cathartic?

by warent 5y ago

I don't get it. What are our ya yas? In what way is injuring or killing a person cathartic?

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

fossuser 5y ago

I agree - I found the writing to be the kind of thing that makes me immediately skeptical. A lot of fanciful connections that seem “smart”, but without much to back it up - it’s possible there’s truth to some of it, but someone could similarly argue a different reason and make it sound just as good. I suspect it’s overconfident in what the causes are and drawing more of a conclusion than what’s there.

nonameiguess 5y ago

To be perfectly clear, I am not in any way intending to advocate for the position that we should feel catharsis from injuring or killing people. But it's there. We are all descended from violent predators that got by in the world by killing other animals. A lot of people still do that for sport. Even just with human sport, perhaps you've never played a contact or combat sport where you directly hit other people. Whether or not it's right that it should be this way, I can assure you that it feels really good. I used to be a tank commander, and I guess I was lucky as hell to never have to kill someone myself, but I'll never quite forget my first commander at the armor school who would get us pumped up talking about when he graduated, he'd gone straight to Ramadi to replace a platoon leader who'd just been killed in action and how it made his dick hard to think about blowing up hospitals. The man was an absolute psychopath, but there is no denying a lot of people like that exist. The commander of my lead 2 tank had once shredded a man with a .50 cal from less than a hundred feet away and found it the most addictive thing he'd ever done. As the war started to wind down and normal units no longer got real combat assignments, he was determined to move into the Special Forces to stay in the game. That guy was never going to be normal again. Whether it is sports, actual combat, sexual dominance and sado-masochism, or even just extreme endurance athletes and alpine mountaineers putting their own bodies through hell, pain inflicted on others and pain inflicted on yourself can be quite addictive, and it is definitely better for society if we can find some way to do this ritually rather than by actually starting wars. Ideally not via human sacrifice, but you know, somehow.

warent 5y ago
I played full contact football and never felt anything pleasant from it. Nothing convinced me of what you were talking about except that I'd not considered sadomasochism in this context and now what you're saying makes sense. Sexual sadomasochism is experiencing some kind of torture in a safe, imaginary way. So other ritual violence works in a similar way. That comparison clicks for me. Thanks for the insight.

fsckboy 5y ago

this isn't a direct answer to your first question, but the people who go to burning man are probably familiar with the Rolling Stones album entitled "Get Your Ya Ya's Out" and since "ya" is a cry of agreement often used as a cheer, I always assumed it meant "group shout in celebration" and I don't think that's a big stretch as to your second question, humans have innate senses of violence as a reaction to certain stimuli, and also celebrations of victory whether in actual or symbolic combat so... can you seriously not see the emotional catharsis, or are you simply questioning it as being emotional and un-rational? I would add that to me--anthropomorphizing a little, emotions are rational: emotions were discovered by evolution as a good way to regulate behavior, and evolution is actually one of the most logical of processes.

nonameiguess 5y ago
Yeah, I was intentionally invoking the Rolling Stones, since the article mentions the Altamont incident where Meredith Hunter was killed by the Hell's Angels right in front of the stage as one of its examples. Might not be entirely clear to readers who aren't familiar with the Stones' back catalog.
- fsckboy 5y ago
  just to tune up that sentence a little, Meredith Hunter was killed by a Hell's Angel after he drew a gun. There was beef. The Hell's Angel was tried and acquitted, self-defense.