5 ms·

This is a byproduct of vaccine hesitancy and politicization of the pandemic.

by fny 5y ago

gjsman-1000 5y ago
You can't say vaccine hesitancy hasn't been well earned. It's not like the US doesn't have a history of lying about medical procedures performed on misinformed citizens... Fool me once, shame on you [Tuskegee]. Fool me twice, shame on me [MKULTRA]. Fool me three times...
- Ansil849 5y ago
  > Fool me once, shame on you [Tuskegee] I am so tired of seeing Tuskegee trotted out as an argument by anti vaxxers. The Tuskegee experiment specifically targeted a selected group of African Americans and was an overtly racist program. COVID vaccines on the other hand are not targeting a specific sample group, they are being given to virtually everyone. There's no sample group. The two are not remotely comparable.
  - gjsman-1000 5y ago
    It’s not the method, it’s that the government lied about medicine before. No reason they can’t do it again.
    - Ansil849 5y ago
      What kind of reasoning is this? Even if the government had not lied about medicine, or any other topic before, there is equally "no reason" that they couldn't lie going forward about anything and everything. Everyone and anyone could lie to you at any given moment. What's your point? How do you go on living your life?
    - seattle_spring 5y ago
      "the government lied about vaccines a couple times a few decades ago so they are forever untrustable. Far right wing talking heads like Alex Jones lie on a daily basis, but they're inexplicably trustworthy for medical advice because reasons!"
    - moistly 5y ago
      So let’s run with that thought: the governments of almost every nation are outright lying about the vaccines. Also, a supermajority of folk have been vaccinated in most of the advanced nations. Now what? The government lied and… the plan is to have 80% of the population die? How does that benefit those in power? The economy would crash. Production of everything—food, cars, houses—would cease. Healthcare, education, policing, infrastructure maintenance—all would collapse. First-world society would disintegrate. It makes no sense to believe the powers that be are lying about the vaccine. Oh, and also: the unvaccinated make the vast majority of hospitalizations. Now the lie is even more crazy: the vaccine is obviously great at keeping people out of the hospital, but also the governments are all lying about the vaccine. It’s just sheer crazypants conspiracy thinking, through and through.
  - AndrewBissell 5y ago
    > The Tuskegee experiment specifically targeted a selected group of African Americans. Ah, and if they did that (and a thousand other things, many of which were not limited to African Americans, including the aforementioned MKULTRA) and suffered no repercussions for it whatsoever, well, I'm sure they still learned their lesson and would never dream of doing something like it again.
    - Ansil849 5y ago
      > , I'm sure they still learned their lesson and would never dream of doing something like it again. That's the thing though. COVID vaccinations are _nothing like_ the Tuskegee experiment.
- junon 5y ago
  > You can't say vaccine hesitancy hasn't been well earned. Sure you can. People spend their entire lives studying this shit, dedicating their entire careers to saving people who sit on facebook all day and post nonsense they hear on podcasts and other credit-less sources. It's not "vaccine hesitancy". It's stupidity. Domain experts know more than your conspiracy-theorist crazy Facebook aunt. There is no conspiracy here. It doesn't benefit big pharma by giving it out for free, essentially. There are a handful of other pharmas that did want to rush the vaccine and as a result did not make it to manufacturing because they didn't pass the regulatory process. So no, vaccine "hesitancy" has not been "well earned".
  - rajin444 5y ago
    Do the experts have any long term studies on efficacy (5+ years out)? It seems like they figured out the 6 month (or is it 5? or 8?) window only recently. It also seems learning the vaccine is non sterilizing is new as well. I don't fault them for any of this. Science takes time and iteration. Nobody can account for unknown unknowns - the only solution is time.
    - junon 5y ago
      What is the alternative?
      - rajin444 5y ago
        Based on current data? I have no idea. It's an absolute mess: https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/09/03/i-have-not-been-silenced/ https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/09/03/i-have-not-been-sil... For a start, we could stop making claims that we don't know to be true. Replace "the vaccine is safe and effective, and if we all get the vaccine the pandemic will be over" with "the vaccine is the best tool we have to prevent serious disease and death".
        junon 5y ago
        But people at e.g. RKI are saying the latter. It's the media that is saying otherwise.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dundarious 5y ago
Exactly, I have no reason to doubt that the vast majority of ivermectin users are taking it as an alternative to and not in tandem with a free vaccine, and vaccine inaccessibility is way down in the list of justifications unvaccinated people give in polls.

This is a byproduct of vaccine hesitancy and politicization of the pandemic.

by fny 5y ago

This is a byproduct of vaccine hesitancy and politicization of the pandemic.

You can't say vaccine hesitancy hasn't been well earned. It's not like the US doesn't have a history of lying about medical procedures performed on misinformed citizens... Fool me once, shame on you [Tuskegee]. Fool me twice, shame on me [MKULTRA]. Fool me three times...

Ansil849 5y ago
> Fool me once, shame on you [Tuskegee] I am so tired of seeing Tuskegee trotted out as an argument by anti vaxxers. The Tuskegee experiment specifically targeted a selected group of African Americans and was an overtly racist program. COVID vaccines on the other hand are not targeting a specific sample group, they are being given to virtually everyone. There's no sample group. The two are not remotely comparable.
- gjsman-1000 5y ago
  It’s not the method, it’s that the government lied about medicine before. No reason they can’t do it again.
  - Ansil849 5y ago
    What kind of reasoning is this? Even if the government had not lied about medicine, or any other topic before, there is equally "no reason" that they couldn't lie going forward about anything and everything. Everyone and anyone could lie to you at any given moment. What's your point? How do you go on living your life?
  - seattle_spring 5y ago
    "the government lied about vaccines a couple times a few decades ago so they are forever untrustable. Far right wing talking heads like Alex Jones lie on a daily basis, but they're inexplicably trustworthy for medical advice because reasons!"
  - moistly 5y ago
    So let’s run with that thought: the governments of almost every nation are outright lying about the vaccines. Also, a supermajority of folk have been vaccinated in most of the advanced nations. Now what? The government lied and… the plan is to have 80% of the population die? How does that benefit those in power? The economy would crash. Production of everything—food, cars, houses—would cease. Healthcare, education, policing, infrastructure maintenance—all would collapse. First-world society would disintegrate. It makes no sense to believe the powers that be are lying about the vaccine. Oh, and also: the unvaccinated make the vast majority of hospitalizations. Now the lie is even more crazy: the vaccine is obviously great at keeping people out of the hospital, but also the governments are all lying about the vaccine. It’s just sheer crazypants conspiracy thinking, through and through.
- AndrewBissell 5y ago
  > The Tuskegee experiment specifically targeted a selected group of African Americans. Ah, and if they did that (and a thousand other things, many of which were not limited to African Americans, including the aforementioned MKULTRA) and suffered no repercussions for it whatsoever, well, I'm sure they still learned their lesson and would never dream of doing something like it again.
  - Ansil849 5y ago
    > , I'm sure they still learned their lesson and would never dream of doing something like it again. That's the thing though. COVID vaccinations are _nothing like_ the Tuskegee experiment.
junon 5y ago
> You can't say vaccine hesitancy hasn't been well earned. Sure you can. People spend their entire lives studying this shit, dedicating their entire careers to saving people who sit on facebook all day and post nonsense they hear on podcasts and other credit-less sources. It's not "vaccine hesitancy". It's stupidity. Domain experts know more than your conspiracy-theorist crazy Facebook aunt. There is no conspiracy here. It doesn't benefit big pharma by giving it out for free, essentially. There are a handful of other pharmas that did want to rush the vaccine and as a result did not make it to manufacturing because they didn't pass the regulatory process. So no, vaccine "hesitancy" has not been "well earned".
- rajin444 5y ago
  Do the experts have any long term studies on efficacy (5+ years out)? It seems like they figured out the 6 month (or is it 5? or 8?) window only recently. It also seems learning the vaccine is non sterilizing is new as well. I don't fault them for any of this. Science takes time and iteration. Nobody can account for unknown unknowns - the only solution is time.
  - junon 5y ago
    What is the alternative?
    - rajin444 5y ago
      Based on current data? I have no idea. It's an absolute mess: https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/09/03/i-have-not-been-silenced/ https://drmalcolmkendrick.org/2021/09/03/i-have-not-been-sil... For a start, we could stop making claims that we don't know to be true. Replace "the vaccine is safe and effective, and if we all get the vaccine the pandemic will be over" with "the vaccine is the best tool we have to prevent serious disease and death".
      - junon 5y ago
        But people at e.g. RKI are saying the latter. It's the media that is saying otherwise.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

dundarious 5y ago

Exactly, I have no reason to doubt that the vast majority of ivermectin users are taking it as an alternative to and not in tandem with a free vaccine, and vaccine inaccessibility is way down in the list of justifications unvaccinated people give in polls.