5 ms·

In France, there is a national gender equality rule (enacted in 2013) that states that no more than 60% of new appointments to management positions in public se

In France, there is a national gender equality rule (enacted in 2013) that states that no more than 60% of new appointments to management positions in public service should go to one sex. Though bringing more female representation and thereby creating gender parity in employment served as the impetus, this rule was broken in Paris in 2018 when 69% of jobs went to women under the mayor's (Anne Hidalgo) purview. This led to a fine of €90,000 against the Paris government. Both the mayor and deputy mayor (Audrey Pulvar) publicly expressed happiness, pride, and a sense of honor at having been fined for breaking the rule. In 2019, the fine was subsequently dropped. So here we have an interesting example of aiming for equality of outcome. What makes it interesting is that when the results led to inequality in favor of one particular side, it was actually championed and seen as progress. Sources: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55330297 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55330297 https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-55339750 https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-europe-55339750

Zababa 5y ago
Thanks, I didn't know about what happened in Paris.
pasabagi 5y ago
Until 1945 (later?) women didn't have the vote in France, so I think a situation where one local government has 69% women is very clearly progress. I seriously doubt that women make a majority of civil servants in general. When women are overrepresented in every prestigious sector, I think it'll be worth having a rethink about policies like this. Until then, it seems a bit ridiculous - and I say this as a man. If you're a man, and you're not an idiot, you've doubtless noticed a ton of incidents where your gender has helped you advance socially or professionally. You can't just overnight shuck of centuries of history. Quotas are a simple way of trying to push back on that.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- Zababa 5y ago
  62% of civil servants are women in France. Civil servants are 20% of the employed people in France. Civil servants used to have lots of advantages over people working in the private sectors. These days these advantages are being slowly eroded, but some are still here. Stability is a big one. So that 69% is not progress at all, it's just the usual. The goal of these policies is already to get more men in the sector. Especially for civil servants, you should try to have a workforce that's representative of the population. Source of my statistics: https://www.fonction-publique.gouv.fr/legalite-professionnelle-entre-femmes-et-hommes https://www.fonction-publique.gouv.fr/legalite-professionnel.... > If you're a man, and you're not an idiot, you've doubtless noticed a ton of incidents where your gender has helped you advance socially or professionally. I don't think that's the case for everyone. Maybe that's because I'm young? But I haven't noticed much if any discrimination against women firsthand. Even around me, it's very rare to hear stories like that. > You can't just overnight shuck of centuries of history. I think you can. Culture erodes very fast when the people that enforced it are no longer around. We had two world war with Germany, and I don't know anyone that has any ressentment against the Germans. I think part of it is because most of the people from that time period are not around anymore, or are now very old. If someone said that he dislikes Germans because of the world wars, everyone would think that person is very weird. As another example, rights of LGBT have been moving very fast these last ~10 years. I think it's very important to recognize that even if we are far from perfect, lots of improvements have already been and continue to be made. We should use this as an inspiration to know that what we're doing isn't useless or for the future generation, and that we can improve the life of people right now.

Zababa 5y ago

Thanks, I didn't know about what happened in Paris.

pasabagi 5y ago

Until 1945 (later?) women didn't have the vote in France, so I think a situation where one local government has 69% women is very clearly progress. I seriously doubt that women make a majority of civil servants in general. When women are overrepresented in every prestigious sector, I think it'll be worth having a rethink about policies like this. Until then, it seems a bit ridiculous - and I say this as a man. If you're a man, and you're not an idiot, you've doubtless noticed a ton of incidents where your gender has helped you advance socially or professionally. You can't just overnight shuck of centuries of history. Quotas are a simple way of trying to push back on that.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Zababa 5y ago
62% of civil servants are women in France. Civil servants are 20% of the employed people in France. Civil servants used to have lots of advantages over people working in the private sectors. These days these advantages are being slowly eroded, but some are still here. Stability is a big one. So that 69% is not progress at all, it's just the usual. The goal of these policies is already to get more men in the sector. Especially for civil servants, you should try to have a workforce that's representative of the population. Source of my statistics: https://www.fonction-publique.gouv.fr/legalite-professionnelle-entre-femmes-et-hommes https://www.fonction-publique.gouv.fr/legalite-professionnel.... > If you're a man, and you're not an idiot, you've doubtless noticed a ton of incidents where your gender has helped you advance socially or professionally. I don't think that's the case for everyone. Maybe that's because I'm young? But I haven't noticed much if any discrimination against women firsthand. Even around me, it's very rare to hear stories like that. > You can't just overnight shuck of centuries of history. I think you can. Culture erodes very fast when the people that enforced it are no longer around. We had two world war with Germany, and I don't know anyone that has any ressentment against the Germans. I think part of it is because most of the people from that time period are not around anymore, or are now very old. If someone said that he dislikes Germans because of the world wars, everyone would think that person is very weird. As another example, rights of LGBT have been moving very fast these last ~10 years. I think it's very important to recognize that even if we are far from perfect, lots of improvements have already been and continue to be made. We should use this as an inspiration to know that what we're doing isn't useless or for the future generation, and that we can improve the life of people right now.