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I agree with you to some extent, but we have to agree on a line somewhere. For instance, I don't think cloudflare is required to host a site. Millions of entit

I agree with you to some extent, but we have to agree on a line somewhere. For instance, I don't think cloudflare is required to host a site. Millions of entities online are able to function without cloudflare or godaddy. So where do we draw the line for basic web infrastructure? To me it seems like the ISP is a good place to start. If you have internet, you could host a site on hardware yourself, or with a minor hire

skohan 5y ago
Yeah I don’t think it’s quite good enough. In the 19th century we could have let railroads play favorites, because after all it was still possible to transport goods by canal or by wagon, but it was much better for the growth of the US for everyone to have a fair shot at the best form of freight transit available. Sure it’s possible to get your own fiber connection, manage your own hardware and host a web company, but you’re never going to be able to compete with another party who has access to AWS or GCP to run on top of.
MisterBastahrd 5y ago
The reason that they were removed from Godaddy is because they violated the EULA. That said, a line? The line that should be drawn is anyone declaring that they have a right to financially coerce women to making adverse health decisions.
- skohan 5y ago
  The only point where I disagree is that I believe the line should be drawn by democratic means. It's all fine and good when a company can unilaterally set the standard so long as it's something we agree with. But what will you think when it's your speech, or your business which gets classified as unacceptable by a room full of people at some web company with no oversight? If the pandemic has taught us anything, the internet is the commons in the modern world, and currently we're ceding governance of it to private enterprise.
  - MisterBastahrd 5y ago
    There's no such thing as a democracy in a gerrymandered representative state. One of the reasons we have a Constitution is because the Founding Fathers didn't believe that states were capable of fully independent democratic governance. It is there to protect the people FROM democracy at a local level.
    - skohan 5y ago
      That seems like a very nihilistic view. If government is futile, what on earth should we do to maintain a society? I have to say, since I moved to Europe I have become much less convinced of the inherent futility of democracy.
- arwineap 5y ago
  Right, the discussion was around what bits of the internet should be a common carrier This would essentially prevent godaddy from limiting service to a customer because they would be required to work with all peoples My argument, was that yes, I agree that some things should be governed more like public utilities, like ISPs. Other things should not, like CDNs, or DDOS protection, etc. IMO once you have internet, that is what is obligated to be made available to you, all these other services might help you but they are private companies that can refuse service for any reason Anyway, I doubt this discussion continues as the topic is stale now, but I wanted to clarify my comment regarding where the line was. I wasn't talking about morality of issues, I was talking about where common carrier status should start / stop

skohan 5y ago

Yeah I don’t think it’s quite good enough. In the 19th century we could have let railroads play favorites, because after all it was still possible to transport goods by canal or by wagon, but it was much better for the growth of the US for everyone to have a fair shot at the best form of freight transit available. Sure it’s possible to get your own fiber connection, manage your own hardware and host a web company, but you’re never going to be able to compete with another party who has access to AWS or GCP to run on top of.

MisterBastahrd 5y ago

The reason that they were removed from Godaddy is because they violated the EULA. That said, a line? The line that should be drawn is anyone declaring that they have a right to financially coerce women to making adverse health decisions.

skohan 5y ago
The only point where I disagree is that I believe the line should be drawn by democratic means. It's all fine and good when a company can unilaterally set the standard so long as it's something we agree with. But what will you think when it's your speech, or your business which gets classified as unacceptable by a room full of people at some web company with no oversight? If the pandemic has taught us anything, the internet is the commons in the modern world, and currently we're ceding governance of it to private enterprise.
- MisterBastahrd 5y ago
  There's no such thing as a democracy in a gerrymandered representative state. One of the reasons we have a Constitution is because the Founding Fathers didn't believe that states were capable of fully independent democratic governance. It is there to protect the people FROM democracy at a local level.
  - skohan 5y ago
    That seems like a very nihilistic view. If government is futile, what on earth should we do to maintain a society? I have to say, since I moved to Europe I have become much less convinced of the inherent futility of democracy.
arwineap 5y ago
Right, the discussion was around what bits of the internet should be a common carrier This would essentially prevent godaddy from limiting service to a customer because they would be required to work with all peoples My argument, was that yes, I agree that some things should be governed more like public utilities, like ISPs. Other things should not, like CDNs, or DDOS protection, etc. IMO once you have internet, that is what is obligated to be made available to you, all these other services might help you but they are private companies that can refuse service for any reason Anyway, I doubt this discussion continues as the topic is stale now, but I wanted to clarify my comment regarding where the line was. I wasn't talking about morality of issues, I was talking about where common carrier status should start / stop