4 ms·

I’ve been following ivermectin since about June 2020. I’m still not convinced and haven’t taken it because there have no home run studies as far as I’ve been co

I’ve been following ivermectin since about June 2020. I’m still not convinced and haven’t taken it because there have no home run studies as far as I’ve been concerned, but the sheer absurd propaganda calling it horse dewormer is really suspicious as hell. It’s one of the safest drugs known to man. Literally billions of doses have been given to humans in poor countries. If you take the animal version, of course you would get sick just like taking the animal version of antibiotics. The key thing to remember is that ivermectin has more positive outcomes from trials (50+) than remdesivir ever did. In fact remdesivir doesn’t even appear to work, and yet remdesivir was approved after a single positive trial. And I purchased Gilead stock in 2020 because of remdesivir potential but it is clear by now it doesn’t work. All the media bashing of ivermectin as “horse dewormer” when remdesivir has no such ire but is costing us billions is really really suspicious. It reeks of when the media was bashing the lab leak theory which was ultimately wrong.

UncleMeat 5y ago
The thread is talking literally about taking the product designed for horses because there is too much demand for the doctors who are willing to prescribe human versions.
- farmerstan 5y ago
  But that isn’t the overall propaganda in the media. The media is painting it as only an animal dewormer. Look at the discourse around Joe Rogan. One of the drugs he took was ivermectin. That’s all the media talks about and they call it horse dewormer when it was prescribed by a doctor. They don’t mention monoclonal antibodies or z-pak or drip vitamins. The propaganda is crazy. And yes he is a fool for not getting vaccinated. But once he got covid and he was getting worse he took every single drug he could.
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    Then you should make that clear in your post, since this thread is very very specifically about a veterinary product for horses and it is 100% reasonable to use this title. This thread is doing precisely the thing you are expecting of the media.
    - farmerstan 5y ago
      No. I don’t need to because the intent of the Twitter post is clear. To conflate human doses of ivermectin with horse doses and turn people off from ivermectin entirely.
- josephcsible 5y ago
  > there is too much demand for the doctors who are willing to prescribe human versions Isn't calling it "too much demand" kind of misleading? Isn't the problem that the powers that be are telling doctors not to prescribe the human version of ivermectin against COVID, even though usually doctors basically have carte blanche to prescribe approved drugs off-label?
  - UncleMeat 5y ago
    In this case, the "powers that be" is the "ordinary medical approval process".
    - farmerstan 5y ago
      False. Remdesivir was approved to treat covid with far less positive studies than ivermectin. And subsequent trials show that it probably is worse than nothing. And yet here we are, billions of dollars later.
SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
> If you take the animal version, of course you would get sick just like taking the animal version of antibiotics. I don’t know anything about this, can you clarify? I was under the impression that the drug is the drug. Amoxicillin for animals is definitely the same thing as the human version. I know for a fact in one case they come from the same place, because I toured a production line.
- farmerstan 5y ago
  The doses are higher and the tolerances for impurities are higher. Some drugs animals takes can definitely be the human versions but not the other way around. My friend’s dog buys a human anti-fungal drug for his dog that costs $300/month from a pharmacy. But for example Hydroxychloroquine is a safe drug taken for malaria but you can’t take the version for aquariums!
  - SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
    >the doses are higher The dose is how much you take. If the paste is 1.87% it is pretty simple to get the whatever-milligram human dose from that. Agreed on possible impurities. >[HCQ] you can’t take the version for aquariums That is hydrochloroquine phosphate. Not the human medication hydrochloroquine sulfate. I don’t think it’s fair to compare those at all, very much different things. Yes, they have the same prefix, different chemical. Not the same thing in a human and none human form. To my knowledge the only people to have taken that is a couple where the wife was at least temporarily accused of poisoning her husband. As where Ivermectin the brand name in horse paste is the same chemical as ivermectin in human medication, right?
    - farmerstan 5y ago
      Do you really expect people who are dumb enough to take animal versions of medication to be able to figure out a proper dose? I certainly don’t. Even if it were safe to take the animal versions of ivermectin in the appropriate amounts by doing the proper math, you only hear about the ones who failed not the ones who successfully did it.
stillbourne 5y ago
Sigh, I grew up in a farming family. I didn't live on the farm, I only spent summers there before it was sold off. However, the issue with ivermectin is not new because there has been a history, predating the covid pandemic, of rural Americans self prescribing drugs from the local feed shop. Sometime they get sick from it and sometimes they don't, but even so it seems a decent risk because the drugs are cheaper than getting it from the pharmacy. Here is an article circa 2017: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/bradesposito/fish-antibiotics https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/bradesposito/fish-antib... The problem isn't ivermectin consumption per se, its more of the fact that ivermectin has not shown substantial therapeutic value in covid cases, and therefore doctors don't generally prescribe it for that use. To get around that folks are getting the kind made for livestock to consume. That is what is dangerous.

UncleMeat 5y ago

The thread is talking literally about taking the product designed for horses because there is too much demand for the doctors who are willing to prescribe human versions.

farmerstan 5y ago
But that isn’t the overall propaganda in the media. The media is painting it as only an animal dewormer. Look at the discourse around Joe Rogan. One of the drugs he took was ivermectin. That’s all the media talks about and they call it horse dewormer when it was prescribed by a doctor. They don’t mention monoclonal antibodies or z-pak or drip vitamins. The propaganda is crazy. And yes he is a fool for not getting vaccinated. But once he got covid and he was getting worse he took every single drug he could.
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  Then you should make that clear in your post, since this thread is very very specifically about a veterinary product for horses and it is 100% reasonable to use this title. This thread is doing precisely the thing you are expecting of the media.
  - farmerstan 5y ago
    No. I don’t need to because the intent of the Twitter post is clear. To conflate human doses of ivermectin with horse doses and turn people off from ivermectin entirely.
josephcsible 5y ago
> there is too much demand for the doctors who are willing to prescribe human versions Isn't calling it "too much demand" kind of misleading? Isn't the problem that the powers that be are telling doctors not to prescribe the human version of ivermectin against COVID, even though usually doctors basically have carte blanche to prescribe approved drugs off-label?
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  In this case, the "powers that be" is the "ordinary medical approval process".
  - farmerstan 5y ago
    False. Remdesivir was approved to treat covid with far less positive studies than ivermectin. And subsequent trials show that it probably is worse than nothing. And yet here we are, billions of dollars later.

SV_BubbleTime 5y ago

> If you take the animal version, of course you would get sick just like taking the animal version of antibiotics. I don’t know anything about this, can you clarify? I was under the impression that the drug is the drug. Amoxicillin for animals is definitely the same thing as the human version. I know for a fact in one case they come from the same place, because I toured a production line.

farmerstan 5y ago
The doses are higher and the tolerances for impurities are higher. Some drugs animals takes can definitely be the human versions but not the other way around. My friend’s dog buys a human anti-fungal drug for his dog that costs $300/month from a pharmacy. But for example Hydroxychloroquine is a safe drug taken for malaria but you can’t take the version for aquariums!
- SV_BubbleTime 5y ago
  >the doses are higher The dose is how much you take. If the paste is 1.87% it is pretty simple to get the whatever-milligram human dose from that. Agreed on possible impurities. >[HCQ] you can’t take the version for aquariums That is hydrochloroquine phosphate. Not the human medication hydrochloroquine sulfate. I don’t think it’s fair to compare those at all, very much different things. Yes, they have the same prefix, different chemical. Not the same thing in a human and none human form. To my knowledge the only people to have taken that is a couple where the wife was at least temporarily accused of poisoning her husband. As where Ivermectin the brand name in horse paste is the same chemical as ivermectin in human medication, right?
  - farmerstan 5y ago
    Do you really expect people who are dumb enough to take animal versions of medication to be able to figure out a proper dose? I certainly don’t. Even if it were safe to take the animal versions of ivermectin in the appropriate amounts by doing the proper math, you only hear about the ones who failed not the ones who successfully did it.

stillbourne 5y ago

Sigh, I grew up in a farming family. I didn't live on the farm, I only spent summers there before it was sold off. However, the issue with ivermectin is not new because there has been a history, predating the covid pandemic, of rural Americans self prescribing drugs from the local feed shop. Sometime they get sick from it and sometimes they don't, but even so it seems a decent risk because the drugs are cheaper than getting it from the pharmacy. Here is an article circa 2017: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/bradesposito/fish-antibiotics https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/bradesposito/fish-antib... The problem isn't ivermectin consumption per se, its more of the fact that ivermectin has not shown substantial therapeutic value in covid cases, and therefore doctors don't generally prescribe it for that use. To get around that folks are getting the kind made for livestock to consume. That is what is dangerous.