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The problem with TikTok is that it promotes the silly and the stupid. At scale, that makes society silly and stupid.

bsksi 5y ago
That's a problem with social networks at large. At least before the stupid or degenerate were ashamed of themselves. Now everybody can find a circus of freaks to belong to, which makes them believe their behaviour to be appropriate.
- krustyburger 5y ago
  I’m not sure Linkedin has quite the same effect on people that Tiktok seems to. Certain social networks have a culture of amplifying drivel.
  - junon 5y ago
    Have you seen LinkedIn recently? It's all of the Facebook garbage just moved to a new home. Most of the content on there has little to nothing to do with the professional world.
    - lobocinza 5y ago
      It's filled with fake stories of hard-work and leadership.
- derefr 5y ago
  No, just unmoderated social networks. One of the longest-running types of “social network” (going for centuries now!) is the academic journal—but those have the explicit goal of sanity cross-checking anything submitted to them before allowing it in, so they result in something else being promoted. (I don’t want to say it's “good, rational discourse” that journals promote, because that doesn’t seem to be exactly what comes out of journals; they do have their own incentive structures that bias "the conversation" in specific directions, even besides the ones that are extrinsically imposed upon them by academic hierarchy.)
  - runawaybottle 5y ago
    I think it’s a matter of time before the copy-cat stuff is going to get us one of those weird Japanese suicide pacts. They are already starting with the new crate challenge (which is dangerous as fuck). https://youtu.be/4bFK6EBz8VY https://youtu.be/4bFK6EBz8VY I saw kids doing this on concrete recently. On concrete. Tiktok is literally an at-scale sorority/fraternity, which means people are taking part in an at-scale hazing ritual - to fit in. The problem with this is the same problem that arises if you are 20 and watch Sesame Street every day still. There’s a time and place for this behavior and we are not setting any cut offs for when it’s time to stop the nonsense.
    - XorNot 5y ago
      People already died from planking. And tide pods. People have been ongoingly dying from drinking bleach. People dying due to social trends isn't new though: perhaps more notable is that it's easier to know it's happening in an age of instant global communication, and since we all have quick and easy access to all the knowledge needed to avoid these entirely preventable outcomes. The milk crate challenge on concrete is hardly different to any other dangerous behavior engaged in by (principally) young men: i.e. what's the difference really between this and say, street racing? Which has been a thing pretty much since car's became affordable to 20 year olds.
      - runawaybottle 5y ago
        There is a voyeurism here. At risk of entering extreme levels of armchair psychology, it’s the bystander effect at scale. You are free to Google milk-crate challenge death and see for yourself (how guilty am I for the thing that I condemn). They fall on their necks. I certainly don’t have the answer, but this can’t be normalized, and sadly I think we are just at the beginning. Kids abusing the medical system, disrespecting a disease, walking on shaky crates six feet off the ground. It’s hard for me to say it’s kids being kids, or the weak in natural selection being handled. Something is up.
        kevinmchugh 5y ago
whymauri 5y ago
The algorithm promotes what you want to see. If you're not interested in silly or stupid things, you can nudge the algorithm towards content you find engaging. It's kinda "one-size-fits-all", but yeah, the average user is looking for entertainment you'd probably classify as 'silly'.
- underwater 5y ago
  Can you really train it to be healthier? It uses implicit signals to figure out what you like watching. That's like having a machine that detects which foods you find tastiest, and starts serving you only those things.
  - zahrc 5y ago
    Probably not. Don’t know much about TikTok, but if I click a link on YouTube, barely watching the video, my recommendations will be spammed with similar filth forever - and it seems to be pushing certain channels or types of videos. Educated guess, as I’ve no idea how these things work - videos I’m more likely to share will be recommended, bringing controversial content to the top
Karunamon 5y ago
People have been saying the same thing about TV since its inception, and that has a larger scale than the internet. So far, Idiocracy remains a cynical comedy and not a documentary.
- Hoasi 5y ago
  > So far, Idiocracy remains a cynical comedy and not a documentary. The jury is still out on that, even for the optimistic amongst us. Current events/culture/elections/social commentary beg to disagree...
  - smegger001 5y ago
    hey President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho of Idiocracy at least tried to hire the best minds available and took their advice. that is far and away better than we have had for a long time https://stephenaroth.wordpress.com/2018/03/05/five-reasons-why-it-is-time-to-return-president-camacho-to-the-white-house/ https://stephenaroth.wordpress.com/2018/03/05/five-reasons-w...
- StanislavPetrov 5y ago
  >So far, Idiocracy remains a cynical comedy and not a documentary. Many of us hold the opposite opinion.
  - zdragnar 5y ago
    Idiocracy was fine for entertainment, but if you are looking for a moral, it is pure elitist garbage. The basic premise that intelligence is purely driven by genes and that only dumb people will be left is practically hateful. Given the current demographics related to birth rates, calling idiocracy a documentary is blatantly racist and classist.
    - imwillofficial 5y ago
      Literally what the fuck are you talking about. The people breeding a lot in the movie were white. Your logic leaves much to be desired.
dang 5y ago
We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28415092 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28415092.

That's a problem with social networks at large. At least before the stupid or degenerate were ashamed of themselves. Now everybody can find a circus of freaks to belong to, which makes them believe their behaviour to be appropriate.

krustyburger 5y ago
I’m not sure Linkedin has quite the same effect on people that Tiktok seems to. Certain social networks have a culture of amplifying drivel.
- junon 5y ago
  Have you seen LinkedIn recently? It's all of the Facebook garbage just moved to a new home. Most of the content on there has little to nothing to do with the professional world.
  - lobocinza 5y ago
    It's filled with fake stories of hard-work and leadership.
derefr 5y ago
No, just unmoderated social networks. One of the longest-running types of “social network” (going for centuries now!) is the academic journal—but those have the explicit goal of sanity cross-checking anything submitted to them before allowing it in, so they result in something else being promoted. (I don’t want to say it's “good, rational discourse” that journals promote, because that doesn’t seem to be exactly what comes out of journals; they do have their own incentive structures that bias "the conversation" in specific directions, even besides the ones that are extrinsically imposed upon them by academic hierarchy.)
- runawaybottle 5y ago
  I think it’s a matter of time before the copy-cat stuff is going to get us one of those weird Japanese suicide pacts. They are already starting with the new crate challenge (which is dangerous as fuck). https://youtu.be/4bFK6EBz8VY https://youtu.be/4bFK6EBz8VY I saw kids doing this on concrete recently. On concrete. Tiktok is literally an at-scale sorority/fraternity, which means people are taking part in an at-scale hazing ritual - to fit in. The problem with this is the same problem that arises if you are 20 and watch Sesame Street every day still. There’s a time and place for this behavior and we are not setting any cut offs for when it’s time to stop the nonsense.
  - XorNot 5y ago
    People already died from planking. And tide pods. People have been ongoingly dying from drinking bleach. People dying due to social trends isn't new though: perhaps more notable is that it's easier to know it's happening in an age of instant global communication, and since we all have quick and easy access to all the knowledge needed to avoid these entirely preventable outcomes. The milk crate challenge on concrete is hardly different to any other dangerous behavior engaged in by (principally) young men: i.e. what's the difference really between this and say, street racing? Which has been a thing pretty much since car's became affordable to 20 year olds.
    - runawaybottle 5y ago
      There is a voyeurism here. At risk of entering extreme levels of armchair psychology, it’s the bystander effect at scale. You are free to Google milk-crate challenge death and see for yourself (how guilty am I for the thing that I condemn). They fall on their necks. I certainly don’t have the answer, but this can’t be normalized, and sadly I think we are just at the beginning. Kids abusing the medical system, disrespecting a disease, walking on shaky crates six feet off the ground. It’s hard for me to say it’s kids being kids, or the weak in natural selection being handled. Something is up.
      - kevinmchugh 5y ago

whymauri 5y ago

The algorithm promotes what you want to see. If you're not interested in silly or stupid things, you can nudge the algorithm towards content you find engaging. It's kinda "one-size-fits-all", but yeah, the average user is looking for entertainment you'd probably classify as 'silly'.

underwater 5y ago
Can you really train it to be healthier? It uses implicit signals to figure out what you like watching. That's like having a machine that detects which foods you find tastiest, and starts serving you only those things.
- zahrc 5y ago
  Probably not. Don’t know much about TikTok, but if I click a link on YouTube, barely watching the video, my recommendations will be spammed with similar filth forever - and it seems to be pushing certain channels or types of videos. Educated guess, as I’ve no idea how these things work - videos I’m more likely to share will be recommended, bringing controversial content to the top

Karunamon 5y ago

People have been saying the same thing about TV since its inception, and that has a larger scale than the internet. So far, Idiocracy remains a cynical comedy and not a documentary.

Hoasi 5y ago
> So far, Idiocracy remains a cynical comedy and not a documentary. The jury is still out on that, even for the optimistic amongst us. Current events/culture/elections/social commentary beg to disagree...
- smegger001 5y ago
  hey President Dwayne Elizondo Mountain Dew Camacho of Idiocracy at least tried to hire the best minds available and took their advice. that is far and away better than we have had for a long time https://stephenaroth.wordpress.com/2018/03/05/five-reasons-why-it-is-time-to-return-president-camacho-to-the-white-house/ https://stephenaroth.wordpress.com/2018/03/05/five-reasons-w...
StanislavPetrov 5y ago
>So far, Idiocracy remains a cynical comedy and not a documentary. Many of us hold the opposite opinion.
- zdragnar 5y ago
  Idiocracy was fine for entertainment, but if you are looking for a moral, it is pure elitist garbage. The basic premise that intelligence is purely driven by genes and that only dumb people will be left is practically hateful. Given the current demographics related to birth rates, calling idiocracy a documentary is blatantly racist and classist.
  - imwillofficial 5y ago
    Literally what the fuck are you talking about. The people breeding a lot in the movie were white. Your logic leaves much to be desired.

dang 5y ago

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28415092 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28415092.