4 ms·

Well fortunately those aren't comparable to tourette's, since they're not illnesses.

MillenialMan 5y ago
That's sort of an arbitrary distinction. Both are abnormal presentations that cause significant problems in day-to-day life and consequently have clinics set up to treat the issue. Whether the issue is voluntary for a particular patient is also similarly important in assessing an appropriate treatment modality. Putting the obvious political agenda aside, I would argue teenage girls faking tourettes is pretty much the same phenomenon as teenage girls faking gender dysphoria. It's not helpful to pretend that faking tragic mental conditions isn't a phenomenon among teenagers.
- standardUser 5y ago
  "Both are abnormal presentations that cause significant problems in day-to-day life" The same was one-hundred percent true about homosexuality for nearly all of human history in most societies. If the "day-to-day problems" are because other people are mindlessly hateful and intolerant, who exactly has the mental health issue? In terms of homosexuality, we now largely agree it is the bigots, not the queers, who have the problem.
  - MillenialMan 5y ago
    Many groups are social pariahs, none have a suicide rate close to the transgender community. Dysphoria by itself is clearly horrible to deal with, that's why people are willing to have double mastectomies in the pursuit of easing their mental pain. A vaginoplasty is incredibly invasive and isn't going to have a meaningful impact on day-to-day social judgement. I really don't buy the claim that it's purely or even primarily about acceptance. I would also point out that the the trans community themselves are advocating for greater access to treatment, not less. It's really not the same as the gay rights movement. Unlike gay people, treatment is literally one of their objectives.
    - standardUser 5y ago
      You're speaking as if you speak for all trans people. Not all trans people desire surgery. All trans people face discrimination and hate.
      - MillenialMan 5y ago
        I was actually quite careful not to say anything like "all trans people desire surgery"
erklik 5y ago
Gender Dysphoria is considered a Mental Disorders and is in the DSM-5 from the American Psychiatric Association.
- input_sh 5y ago
  Gender dysphoria =/= being trans. Gender dysphoria is feeling uncomfortable in your gender-at-birth. Therefore, transitioning or rejecting the concept of the gender isn't the disease — it's a cure for the disease.
  - toiletaccount 5y ago
    Without dysphoria the trans crowd is no different than otherkin or that Rachel Dozel woman.
    - input_sh 5y ago
      Again, the dysphoria is caused by not feeling comfortable with your gender. Trans people solve that by transitioning. That's why you don't see trans people regretting it or trying to undo it in any significant amount. Once they've transitioned, they feel comfortable with their gender, therefore problem solved. Of course, that transition also usually leads to other types of discomforts caused by other people not respecting their decision, but hey, it's not trans people's fault other people are dickheads.
      - pitaj 5y ago
        You don't have to transition to be trans.
        input_sh 5y ago
        Oh I don't mean transition as in sex-reassignment-surgery-exclusively. Sometimes it's as simple as changing clothes and growing/cutting/painting your nails and hair.
      - 5y ago
toiletaccount 5y ago
At least tourette's is involuntary.
- input_sh 5y ago
  Yes, because feeling discomfort with your own gender is totally voluntary. You've nailed it!
  - toiletaccount 5y ago
    gender?
    - input_sh 5y ago
      Yes, a social construct of how one wishes to express themselves (from masculinity to femininity to anything in between). At-birth, it matches your sex. Once you grow a bit, they may diverge in a small amount of cases.
      - wizzwizz4 5y ago
        > At-birth, it matches your sex. Are we even sufficiently social that young? I'd rather assume it's ill-defined. (How would you even test that?)
      - toiletaccount 5y ago
        i guess i don't have a need for that hypothesis.
  - dang 5y ago
    "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- dang 5y ago
  We've banned this account for posting flamebait and unsubstantive comments. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

That's sort of an arbitrary distinction. Both are abnormal presentations that cause significant problems in day-to-day life and consequently have clinics set up to treat the issue. Whether the issue is voluntary for a particular patient is also similarly important in assessing an appropriate treatment modality. Putting the obvious political agenda aside, I would argue teenage girls faking tourettes is pretty much the same phenomenon as teenage girls faking gender dysphoria. It's not helpful to pretend that faking tragic mental conditions isn't a phenomenon among teenagers.

standardUser 5y ago
"Both are abnormal presentations that cause significant problems in day-to-day life" The same was one-hundred percent true about homosexuality for nearly all of human history in most societies. If the "day-to-day problems" are because other people are mindlessly hateful and intolerant, who exactly has the mental health issue? In terms of homosexuality, we now largely agree it is the bigots, not the queers, who have the problem.
- MillenialMan 5y ago
  Many groups are social pariahs, none have a suicide rate close to the transgender community. Dysphoria by itself is clearly horrible to deal with, that's why people are willing to have double mastectomies in the pursuit of easing their mental pain. A vaginoplasty is incredibly invasive and isn't going to have a meaningful impact on day-to-day social judgement. I really don't buy the claim that it's purely or even primarily about acceptance. I would also point out that the the trans community themselves are advocating for greater access to treatment, not less. It's really not the same as the gay rights movement. Unlike gay people, treatment is literally one of their objectives.
  - standardUser 5y ago
    You're speaking as if you speak for all trans people. Not all trans people desire surgery. All trans people face discrimination and hate.
    - MillenialMan 5y ago
      I was actually quite careful not to say anything like "all trans people desire surgery"

erklik 5y ago

Gender Dysphoria is considered a Mental Disorders and is in the DSM-5 from the American Psychiatric Association.

input_sh 5y ago
Gender dysphoria =/= being trans. Gender dysphoria is feeling uncomfortable in your gender-at-birth. Therefore, transitioning or rejecting the concept of the gender isn't the disease — it's a cure for the disease.
- toiletaccount 5y ago
  Without dysphoria the trans crowd is no different than otherkin or that Rachel Dozel woman.
  - input_sh 5y ago
    Again, the dysphoria is caused by not feeling comfortable with your gender. Trans people solve that by transitioning. That's why you don't see trans people regretting it or trying to undo it in any significant amount. Once they've transitioned, they feel comfortable with their gender, therefore problem solved. Of course, that transition also usually leads to other types of discomforts caused by other people not respecting their decision, but hey, it's not trans people's fault other people are dickheads.
    - pitaj 5y ago
      You don't have to transition to be trans.
      - input_sh 5y ago
        Oh I don't mean transition as in sex-reassignment-surgery-exclusively. Sometimes it's as simple as changing clothes and growing/cutting/painting your nails and hair.
    - 5y ago

toiletaccount 5y ago

At least tourette's is involuntary.

input_sh 5y ago
Yes, because feeling discomfort with your own gender is totally voluntary. You've nailed it!
- toiletaccount 5y ago
  gender?
  - input_sh 5y ago
    Yes, a social construct of how one wishes to express themselves (from masculinity to femininity to anything in between). At-birth, it matches your sex. Once you grow a bit, they may diverge in a small amount of cases.
    - wizzwizz4 5y ago
      > At-birth, it matches your sex. Are we even sufficiently social that young? I'd rather assume it's ill-defined. (How would you even test that?)
    - toiletaccount 5y ago
      i guess i don't have a need for that hypothesis.
- dang 5y ago
  "Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
dang 5y ago
We've banned this account for posting flamebait and unsubstantive comments. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html