7 ms·
There’s a school in Brighton where 76 students - 1/20 of the entire student population- declared themselves trans or gender fluid. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/a
by nailer 5y ago
There’s a school in Brighton where 76 students - 1/20 of the entire student population- declared themselves trans or gender fluid.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-groups-under-fire-for-huge-rise-in-child-referrals-2ttm8c0fr https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trans-groups-under-fire-f...
- input_sh 5y agoWell fortunately those aren't comparable to tourette's, since they're not illnesses.
- MillenialMan 5y agoThat's sort of an arbitrary distinction. Both are abnormal presentations that cause significant problems in day-to-day life and consequently have clinics set up to treat the issue. Whether the issue is voluntary for a particular patient is also similarly important in assessing an appropriate treatment modality. Putting the obvious political agenda aside, I would argue teenage girls faking tourettes is pretty much the same phenomenon as teenage girls faking gender dysphoria. It's not helpful to pretend that faking tragic mental conditions isn't a phenomenon among teenagers.
- standardUser 5y ago"Both are abnormal presentations that cause significant problems in day-to-day life" The same was one-hundred percent true about homosexuality for nearly all of human history in most societies. If the "day-to-day problems" are because other people are mindlessly hateful and intolerant, who exactly has the mental health issue? In terms of homosexuality, we now largely agree it is the bigots, not the queers, who have the problem.
- MillenialMan 5y agoMany groups are social pariahs, none have a suicide rate close to the transgender community. Dysphoria by itself is clearly horrible to deal with, that's why people are willing to have double mastectomies in the pursuit of easing their mental pain. A vaginoplasty is incredibly invasive and isn't going to have a meaningful impact on day-to-day social judgement. I really don't buy the claim that it's purely or even primarily about acceptance. I would also point out that the the trans community themselves are advocating for greater access to treatment, not less. It's really not the same as the gay rights movement. Unlike gay people, treatment is literally one of their objectives.
- standardUser 5y agoYou're speaking as if you speak for all trans people. Not all trans people desire surgery. All trans people face discrimination and hate.
- MillenialMan 5y agoI was actually quite careful not to say anything like "all trans people desire surgery"
- erklik 5y agoGender Dysphoria is considered a Mental Disorders and is in the DSM-5 from the American Psychiatric Association.
- input_sh 5y agoGender dysphoria =/= being trans. Gender dysphoria is feeling uncomfortable in your gender-at-birth. Therefore, transitioning or rejecting the concept of the gender isn't the disease — it's a cure for the disease.
- toiletaccount 5y agoWithout dysphoria the trans crowd is no different than otherkin or that Rachel Dozel woman.
- input_sh 5y agoAgain, the dysphoria is caused by not feeling comfortable with your gender. Trans people solve that by transitioning. That's why you don't see trans people regretting it or trying to undo it in any significant amount. Once they've transitioned, they feel comfortable with their gender, therefore problem solved. Of course, that transition also usually leads to other types of discomforts caused by other people not respecting their decision, but hey, it's not trans people's fault other people are dickheads.
- toiletaccount 5y agoAt least tourette's is involuntary.
- input_sh 5y agoYes, because feeling discomfort with your own gender is totally voluntary. You've nailed it!
- toiletaccount 5y agogender?
- input_sh 5y agoYes, a social construct of how one wishes to express themselves (from masculinity to femininity to anything in between). At-birth, it matches your sex. Once you grow a bit, they may diverge in a small amount of cases.
- wizzwizz4 5y ago> At-birth, it matches your sex. Are we even sufficiently social that young? I'd rather assume it's ill-defined. (How would you even test that?)
- toiletaccount 5y agoi guess i don't have a need for that hypothesis.
- dang 5y ago"Don't feed egregious comments by replying; flag them instead." a.k.a. please don't feed the trolls https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- dang 5y agoWe've banned this account for posting flamebait and unsubstantive comments. Please don't create accounts to break HN's rules with. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- nynx 5y agoI’ve been noticing a lot of anti-trans rhetoric on HN recently. I wonder if there’s an astroturfing campaign.
- MillenialMan 5y agoIt would probably be upvoted if it was astroturfing. Hacker News doesn't have a huge commentariat, I think it's just a few people with an axe to grind.
- nailer 5y agoIf anyone was interested: as the author of the post in question: it was +3, -2, killed then vouched then +4. It’s just a controversial topic.
- snaut 5y agoThat's not more anti-trans than OP is anti-Tourette's.
- fortran77 5y agoWhat about the parent's comment was "anti-trans rhetoric?" Is the New Yorker article "anti-Tourette's rhetoric?"
- uuddlrlr 5y agoThe article is matter-of-fact and not anti-trans, at least from the free preview. People here are intolerant of comparing the situations of the two articles.
- nailer 5y agoIt could just be that HN had an article on people finding a trendy malady and I posted a factual comment about other people finding a trendy malady. There doesn’t need to be a conspiracy, nor is mentioning this occurrence “anti trans”.
- input_sh 5y agoYup, same, but I don't really remember HN ever being pro-trans. It's just talked about more.
- tasty_freeze 5y agoIt is convenient to categorize things into as few buckets as possible, but most things in nature (and human behavior) is on a continuous distribution. Yes, some are bimodal distributions, but that 5% fall in between humps is unsurprising to me.
- aaaaaaaaaaab 5y agoSo what? As long as they don’t start taking hormones or cut off their genitals, I’d say let them be! They’ll grow out of it, like we grew out of being emo.
- legostormtroopr 5y agoWell in this story children were “cured” of their Tourette’s when they were correctly diagnosed and told it was fake. However, the only acceptable treatment for trans-presenting children is 100% acceptance and affirmation, including a continuing push for puberty-stopping medication. Given that, then I say there is a risk of harm. If some of those children aren’t trans, but they are being told they are and are given hormones, who knows what damage will happen to them.
- phdelightful 5y agoI’m not an expert in this but I can see you’re mixing up a few things > However, the only acceptable treatment for trans-presenting children is 100% acceptance and affirmation This is a bit reductive isn’t it? You can take them at their word while observing and interrogating in an age-appropriate way. If that means others need to treat the kids as if they’re 100% trans while their guardians work on it then so be it > including a continuing push for puberty-stopping medication. Only relevant when puberty is about to begin and kids need more time to solidify their identity > If some of those children aren’t trans, but they are being told they are and are given hormones Kids don’t get hormones. At the most extreme they get puberty blockers, which are generally safe and given to many other people in many other contexts for many other reasons
- legostormtroopr 5y ago> This is a bit reductive isn’t it? No its not, perhaps I can clarify and say the only socially accepted treatment is affirmation. Please, feel free to presnent one case in the past 5 years where a doctor has attempted to explore if a child is really trans and not been harassed? > Kids don’t get hormones. At the most extreme they get puberty blockers Puberty blockers are hormones. And just because a drug is safe in one context for one group of patients, doesn't mean its "safe" - ivermectin is a safe anti-parasitic drug for humans, but is dangerous for people with COVID.
- standardUser 5y agoI hope and believe we will see an ever-growing number of people rejecting traditional gender roles because we are developing new ways to think about gender that give people a way "out". That doesn't mean they are mentally ill in any meaningful sense.