7 ms·

Have you tried to buy a new car or a home appliance recently? Its nigh impossible to buy something new that is plain old and dumb.

nbzso 5y ago
Yes, and this is a challenge. And nothing will change until your refrigerator reports you to the police for having too much beer in your possession:) Than all the "nothing to hide" people will revolt.
- monkeybutton 5y ago
  I'm not so worried about the fridge ratting me out. Cars on the other hand have lots of potential. Every traffic light could have a red light camera if it's the car watching and reporting.
  - jorvi 5y ago
    In The Netherlands we had this problem with vehicle plate scanners. At first, they were strictly for vehicle tax purposes. Then later it came out they could be used by our three (well, four) letter agency in extraordinary circumstances. Then the police could request access in extreme cases, then less extreme, and now the ‘requesting access’ is nothing more than an automated process that is logged. Build it and they will come.
    - ryantgtg 5y ago
      Sounds like you’re describing an external device monitoring vehicle actions. The person you’re replying to is describing the vehicle monitoring and reporting its own actions. In my opinion, people have proven themselves too irresponsible in cars (in a way that results in them regularly killing other people), and while I dislike surveillance, I am for the monitoring/reporting measures that are in some European countries.
      - parineum 5y ago
        He's describing an already existing slippery slope to warn against the slippery slope of putting surveillance in the cars themselves.
      - monkeybutton 5y ago
        Right. Like Apple's on-device scanning and reporting, cars could scan and report bad behaviours. Toyotas already can detect when a driver is drowsy based on their driving and prompts them to take a break. How hard would it be to make it call police when the driving is severely impaired?
      - haswell 5y ago
        Driving is a privilege. Historically, the solution to irresponsible driving is to revoke that privilege. Why should law abiding drivers be subjected to surveillance caused by the irresponsible crowd? Why is removing one’s driving privileges not enough? Proactive monitoring/reporting is the stuff of slippery slopes and Minority Report is the direction we’re going at this point…
        notriddle 5y ago
        If you want to treat driving as a privilege, then the city needs to be built with non-driving citizens in mind.
        ryantgtg 5y ago
        It’s because revoking privileges is not an effective means of getting these drivers off the road. It’s not a magic force field that prevents people from sitting behind the wheel. All you’re doing is taking a slip of paper away from people who have already demonstrated themselves to not only be irresponsible but also indifferent toward the law. In fact, revoking driving privileges can be counter productive because it takes away their ability to be insured while driving.
mark_l_watson 5y ago
Yesterday while driving my wife to the nearest large town for shopping (one hour each way) I was explaining my thought process on getting an Android phone with an alternative software stack. The most painful part of this proposed transition is that our 2021 Honda Pilot basically becomes whichever of our iPhones is currently synched, and let me tell you, this is damned convenient (pun intended). Currently I am using the full range of ProtonMail products, and have my Google, Apple, and device settings as strong-privacy as I can. Google is a good example: I use a range of paid for Google services but except for YouTube Premium, I have data collection turned off. I let Google store YouTube data for 30 days, and still get a good user experience. As others here have said, stay away from any smart home devices. EDIT: reading this article (and her book Privacy is Power) yesterday is what kicked off our conversation. People who protect their privacy have advantages over people who don’t.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  I actually feel this one a lot: Android Auto and it's contemporaries are surprisingly great experiences on the road, and it's going to be tough to drop it going forwards. As long as my PinePhone ships with Bluetooth, I should be okay.
- nbzso 5y ago
  People who protect their privacy have advantages over people who don’t. This is the essential thing that we as a tech savvy professionals must communicate to the normal users. The key word is "advantages". We all like having one or two. Blurring the lines of "ownership" and "renting" is the global corporate plan for the future. But I have a question: If data is the new petrol, and we all are the source, why they expect us not only to give it free but to pay the extraction fee?
  - mark_l_watson 5y ago
    If they don't have pay us for our data, then they will not. I am pretty much hard-over on privacy, yet I carefully use many fine Google services, keep a Facebook account because I really enjoy my Oculus, etc. I am conflicted about Apple because my professional and personal digital lives are so smooth with an Apple Watch, and iPhone, iPad, and M1 MacBook Pro. Low friction. I have several Linux laptops, including a really nice System76. The thought of getting a CalyxOS Android, and just using Linux is a rough decision.
kfrzcode 5y ago
Yeah, impossible, or like, so totally "impossible"
lrvick 5y ago
This is why I only buy used cars and motorcycles these days. I don't want a vehicle I can't repair or control as I please.
- nbzso 5y ago
  Imagine Apple car, with closed software and monitoring 24/7. Hey, if you want convenience and virtue signaling you will pay for the privilege. They will collect the data, feed it to neural nets and you will be happy to be the petrol of advancements. No need for repair and ownership, services, services, services. Monitoring, monitoring, monitoring. Hey there is no other way to deliver a product. This is the future. Smartphones are privacy invasive devices for the individual. Cars will be the automated police and control of the public. Lidars, cameras, lasers and mobility, what a surveillance dream. Imagine a city with thousands of Apple cars, who are connected to the mothership and are working for "the man" 24/7. You can collect payments from users and governments as a reliable partner. I like cars, cars as sculpture on wheels, cars as a devices for transportation, cars as an expression of individuality. Individuality which will be damned in the future, if you are thinking for yourself and not follow the trends you will be casted out as a lone wolf, a predator or even a terrorist. I have chosen the hill on which I will die. Individuality. Land ownership. Energy efficiency of the grid. Skills for survival and manufacturing. FOSS. And actually instead of buying "the new shitty cars" I will convert my classic car collection to EV https://bit.ly/3kXRe4Z https://bit.ly/3kXRe4Z.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
Yeah, someone here told me cars have microphones installed somewhere now. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they also had GPS and wireless internet connection.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- smegger001 5y ago
  >Yeah, someone here told me cars have microphones installed somewhere now. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they also had GPS and wireless internet connection. ??? I am honestly not sure if this is this sarcastic or just entirely unaware of car infotainment systems development over the last 15-20 years? Yes many cars have a microphone it is so when your cellphone connects via bluetooth to your car for music/audiobook/gps navigation/podcast etc you can answer calls via speakerphone. As for GPS that has been pretty much standard for upper mid-range vehicles at least ten years and a upgrade option for going on 20. internet also for over a decade but is usually from phone tethering. welcome to the 21st century.
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    I don't care much about cars. I knew they had engine control computers but that's it. So how many years do we have left before we need to worry about car malware? Am I gonna have to read a privacy policy next time I buy one? Are they gonna collect and sell my GPS data?

nbzso 5y ago

Yes, and this is a challenge. And nothing will change until your refrigerator reports you to the police for having too much beer in your possession:) Than all the "nothing to hide" people will revolt.

monkeybutton 5y ago
I'm not so worried about the fridge ratting me out. Cars on the other hand have lots of potential. Every traffic light could have a red light camera if it's the car watching and reporting.
- jorvi 5y ago
  In The Netherlands we had this problem with vehicle plate scanners. At first, they were strictly for vehicle tax purposes. Then later it came out they could be used by our three (well, four) letter agency in extraordinary circumstances. Then the police could request access in extreme cases, then less extreme, and now the ‘requesting access’ is nothing more than an automated process that is logged. Build it and they will come.
  - ryantgtg 5y ago
    Sounds like you’re describing an external device monitoring vehicle actions. The person you’re replying to is describing the vehicle monitoring and reporting its own actions. In my opinion, people have proven themselves too irresponsible in cars (in a way that results in them regularly killing other people), and while I dislike surveillance, I am for the monitoring/reporting measures that are in some European countries.
    - parineum 5y ago
      He's describing an already existing slippery slope to warn against the slippery slope of putting surveillance in the cars themselves.
    - monkeybutton 5y ago
      Right. Like Apple's on-device scanning and reporting, cars could scan and report bad behaviours. Toyotas already can detect when a driver is drowsy based on their driving and prompts them to take a break. How hard would it be to make it call police when the driving is severely impaired?
    - haswell 5y ago
      Driving is a privilege. Historically, the solution to irresponsible driving is to revoke that privilege. Why should law abiding drivers be subjected to surveillance caused by the irresponsible crowd? Why is removing one’s driving privileges not enough? Proactive monitoring/reporting is the stuff of slippery slopes and Minority Report is the direction we’re going at this point…
      - notriddle 5y ago
        If you want to treat driving as a privilege, then the city needs to be built with non-driving citizens in mind.
      - ryantgtg 5y ago
        It’s because revoking privileges is not an effective means of getting these drivers off the road. It’s not a magic force field that prevents people from sitting behind the wheel. All you’re doing is taking a slip of paper away from people who have already demonstrated themselves to not only be irresponsible but also indifferent toward the law. In fact, revoking driving privileges can be counter productive because it takes away their ability to be insured while driving.

mark_l_watson 5y ago

Yesterday while driving my wife to the nearest large town for shopping (one hour each way) I was explaining my thought process on getting an Android phone with an alternative software stack. The most painful part of this proposed transition is that our 2021 Honda Pilot basically becomes whichever of our iPhones is currently synched, and let me tell you, this is damned convenient (pun intended). Currently I am using the full range of ProtonMail products, and have my Google, Apple, and device settings as strong-privacy as I can. Google is a good example: I use a range of paid for Google services but except for YouTube Premium, I have data collection turned off. I let Google store YouTube data for 30 days, and still get a good user experience. As others here have said, stay away from any smart home devices. EDIT: reading this article (and her book Privacy is Power) yesterday is what kicked off our conversation. People who protect their privacy have advantages over people who don’t.

smoldesu 5y ago
I actually feel this one a lot: Android Auto and it's contemporaries are surprisingly great experiences on the road, and it's going to be tough to drop it going forwards. As long as my PinePhone ships with Bluetooth, I should be okay.
nbzso 5y ago
People who protect their privacy have advantages over people who don’t. This is the essential thing that we as a tech savvy professionals must communicate to the normal users. The key word is "advantages". We all like having one or two. Blurring the lines of "ownership" and "renting" is the global corporate plan for the future. But I have a question: If data is the new petrol, and we all are the source, why they expect us not only to give it free but to pay the extraction fee?
- mark_l_watson 5y ago
  If they don't have pay us for our data, then they will not. I am pretty much hard-over on privacy, yet I carefully use many fine Google services, keep a Facebook account because I really enjoy my Oculus, etc. I am conflicted about Apple because my professional and personal digital lives are so smooth with an Apple Watch, and iPhone, iPad, and M1 MacBook Pro. Low friction. I have several Linux laptops, including a really nice System76. The thought of getting a CalyxOS Android, and just using Linux is a rough decision.

kfrzcode 5y ago

Yeah, impossible, or like, so totally "impossible"

lrvick 5y ago

This is why I only buy used cars and motorcycles these days. I don't want a vehicle I can't repair or control as I please.

nbzso 5y ago
Imagine Apple car, with closed software and monitoring 24/7. Hey, if you want convenience and virtue signaling you will pay for the privilege. They will collect the data, feed it to neural nets and you will be happy to be the petrol of advancements. No need for repair and ownership, services, services, services. Monitoring, monitoring, monitoring. Hey there is no other way to deliver a product. This is the future. Smartphones are privacy invasive devices for the individual. Cars will be the automated police and control of the public. Lidars, cameras, lasers and mobility, what a surveillance dream. Imagine a city with thousands of Apple cars, who are connected to the mothership and are working for "the man" 24/7. You can collect payments from users and governments as a reliable partner. I like cars, cars as sculpture on wheels, cars as a devices for transportation, cars as an expression of individuality. Individuality which will be damned in the future, if you are thinking for yourself and not follow the trends you will be casted out as a lone wolf, a predator or even a terrorist. I have chosen the hill on which I will die. Individuality. Land ownership. Energy efficiency of the grid. Skills for survival and manufacturing. FOSS. And actually instead of buying "the new shitty cars" I will convert my classic car collection to EV https://bit.ly/3kXRe4Z https://bit.ly/3kXRe4Z.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

Yeah, someone here told me cars have microphones installed somewhere now. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they also had GPS and wireless internet connection.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
smegger001 5y ago
>Yeah, someone here told me cars have microphones installed somewhere now. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they also had GPS and wireless internet connection. ??? I am honestly not sure if this is this sarcastic or just entirely unaware of car infotainment systems development over the last 15-20 years? Yes many cars have a microphone it is so when your cellphone connects via bluetooth to your car for music/audiobook/gps navigation/podcast etc you can answer calls via speakerphone. As for GPS that has been pretty much standard for upper mid-range vehicles at least ten years and a upgrade option for going on 20. internet also for over a decade but is usually from phone tethering. welcome to the 21st century.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  I don't care much about cars. I knew they had engine control computers but that's it. So how many years do we have left before we need to worry about car malware? Am I gonna have to read a privacy policy next time I buy one? Are they gonna collect and sell my GPS data?