7 ms·

I will share my solution: If I have something that spies 24/7 in my home or around me I throw it in the recycle bin. No more tech talk, implementation talk on

by nbzso 5y ago

I will share my solution: If I have something that spies 24/7 in my home or around me I throw it in the recycle bin. No more tech talk, implementation talk on closed software and dark pattern designed products by any company. Apple is using its market leader in "user convenience" position to normalize on device user behavior analysis and data processing and active policing. This is madness. I expect police and three letter agencies to use their own hacking tools and budget. I will not pay the bill on a multiple levels to be monitored and classified. Yes you can vote with your wallet as first reaction, as second you can push your representatives for political and legislative reaction. Imagine this news in 2010. For sure some Apple stores will be burned down to the ground. But make no mistake: If you don't buy products created from the get go to snoop around and extract your data, you will have more privacy. The only way into the future for people who want peace of mind is not to buy into smart home, smart appliances, smart cars and smart surveillance. Period. They are called smart for a reason. Because we are becoming stupider. Start self-hosting and local backups, there are tech savvy people who are moving away from surveillance state and building more private and sustainable future for themselves. Apple is the big writing on the wall. They act as political entity now, the users are their voters and as a classic politics move they are selling the audience to the highest bidder. Checks and balances.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
monkeybutton 5y ago
Have you tried to buy a new car or a home appliance recently? Its nigh impossible to buy something new that is plain old and dumb.
- nbzso 5y ago
  Yes, and this is a challenge. And nothing will change until your refrigerator reports you to the police for having too much beer in your possession:) Than all the "nothing to hide" people will revolt.
  - monkeybutton 5y ago
    I'm not so worried about the fridge ratting me out. Cars on the other hand have lots of potential. Every traffic light could have a red light camera if it's the car watching and reporting.
    - jorvi 5y ago
      In The Netherlands we had this problem with vehicle plate scanners. At first, they were strictly for vehicle tax purposes. Then later it came out they could be used by our three (well, four) letter agency in extraordinary circumstances. Then the police could request access in extreme cases, then less extreme, and now the ‘requesting access’ is nothing more than an automated process that is logged. Build it and they will come.
      - ryantgtg 5y ago
        Sounds like you’re describing an external device monitoring vehicle actions. The person you’re replying to is describing the vehicle monitoring and reporting its own actions. In my opinion, people have proven themselves too irresponsible in cars (in a way that results in them regularly killing other people), and while I dislike surveillance, I am for the monitoring/reporting measures that are in some European countries.
        parineum 5y ago
        He's describing an already existing slippery slope to warn against the slippery slope of putting surveillance in the cars themselves.
        monkeybutton 5y ago
        Right. Like Apple's on-device scanning and reporting, cars could scan and report bad behaviours. Toyotas already can detect when a driver is drowsy based on their driving and prompts them to take a break. How hard would it be to make it call police when the driving is severely impaired?
        5y ago
- mark_l_watson 5y ago
  Yesterday while driving my wife to the nearest large town for shopping (one hour each way) I was explaining my thought process on getting an Android phone with an alternative software stack. The most painful part of this proposed transition is that our 2021 Honda Pilot basically becomes whichever of our iPhones is currently synched, and let me tell you, this is damned convenient (pun intended). Currently I am using the full range of ProtonMail products, and have my Google, Apple, and device settings as strong-privacy as I can. Google is a good example: I use a range of paid for Google services but except for YouTube Premium, I have data collection turned off. I let Google store YouTube data for 30 days, and still get a good user experience. As others here have said, stay away from any smart home devices. EDIT: reading this article (and her book Privacy is Power) yesterday is what kicked off our conversation. People who protect their privacy have advantages over people who don’t.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    I actually feel this one a lot: Android Auto and it's contemporaries are surprisingly great experiences on the road, and it's going to be tough to drop it going forwards. As long as my PinePhone ships with Bluetooth, I should be okay.
  - nbzso 5y ago
    People who protect their privacy have advantages over people who don’t. This is the essential thing that we as a tech savvy professionals must communicate to the normal users. The key word is "advantages". We all like having one or two. Blurring the lines of "ownership" and "renting" is the global corporate plan for the future. But I have a question: If data is the new petrol, and we all are the source, why they expect us not only to give it free but to pay the extraction fee?
    - mark_l_watson 5y ago
      If they don't have pay us for our data, then they will not. I am pretty much hard-over on privacy, yet I carefully use many fine Google services, keep a Facebook account because I really enjoy my Oculus, etc. I am conflicted about Apple because my professional and personal digital lives are so smooth with an Apple Watch, and iPhone, iPad, and M1 MacBook Pro. Low friction. I have several Linux laptops, including a really nice System76. The thought of getting a CalyxOS Android, and just using Linux is a rough decision.
- kfrzcode 5y ago
  Yeah, impossible, or like, so totally "impossible"
- lrvick 5y ago
  This is why I only buy used cars and motorcycles these days. I don't want a vehicle I can't repair or control as I please.
  - nbzso 5y ago
    Imagine Apple car, with closed software and monitoring 24/7. Hey, if you want convenience and virtue signaling you will pay for the privilege. They will collect the data, feed it to neural nets and you will be happy to be the petrol of advancements. No need for repair and ownership, services, services, services. Monitoring, monitoring, monitoring. Hey there is no other way to deliver a product. This is the future. Smartphones are privacy invasive devices for the individual. Cars will be the automated police and control of the public. Lidars, cameras, lasers and mobility, what a surveillance dream. Imagine a city with thousands of Apple cars, who are connected to the mothership and are working for "the man" 24/7. You can collect payments from users and governments as a reliable partner. I like cars, cars as sculpture on wheels, cars as a devices for transportation, cars as an expression of individuality. Individuality which will be damned in the future, if you are thinking for yourself and not follow the trends you will be casted out as a lone wolf, a predator or even a terrorist. I have chosen the hill on which I will die. Individuality. Land ownership. Energy efficiency of the grid. Skills for survival and manufacturing. FOSS. And actually instead of buying "the new shitty cars" I will convert my classic car collection to EV https://bit.ly/3kXRe4Z https://bit.ly/3kXRe4Z.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  Yeah, someone here told me cars have microphones installed somewhere now. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they also had GPS and wireless internet connection.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - smegger001 5y ago
    >Yeah, someone here told me cars have microphones installed somewhere now. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they also had GPS and wireless internet connection. ??? I am honestly not sure if this is this sarcastic or just entirely unaware of car infotainment systems development over the last 15-20 years? Yes many cars have a microphone it is so when your cellphone connects via bluetooth to your car for music/audiobook/gps navigation/podcast etc you can answer calls via speakerphone. As for GPS that has been pretty much standard for upper mid-range vehicles at least ten years and a upgrade option for going on 20. internet also for over a decade but is usually from phone tethering. welcome to the 21st century.
    - matheusmoreira 5y ago
      I don't care much about cars. I knew they had engine control computers but that's it. So how many years do we have left before we need to worry about car malware? Am I gonna have to read a privacy policy next time I buy one? Are they gonna collect and sell my GPS data?
devwastaken 5y ago
Closed markets guarantee income. Apple products are not simply consumer devices, they're used by big box stores to handle inventory, many companies require them for specific apps/ecosystem. Apple and universities conspire against students to require the purchase of MacBooks and other apple hardware, paid for by funny money student loans, which ultimately ends up being tax payers footing the bill for apple hardware. Apple is a company reliant on public tax payer dollars, and should be regulated as such.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- SamuelAdams 5y ago
  I worked for a university in the IT department for a few years. Everything we implemented needed to work for Windows and Mac devices. For mobile, both iOS and Android were supported. Students were free to purchase whatever hardware they wanted. At the end of the day they could get their studies done on either device. The only courses that required an apple computer were the iOS development class, and with Swift becoming more popular I believe there’s a way to do that on windows now. Either way if a student did not have access to an apple computer there were entire labs with apple devices they could use. Universities are not mandating apple hardware. Not by a long shot. Maybe your anecdotal experience is different but I can assure you that is not the norm.
  - nr2x 5y ago
    At CMU at least you see a Macs, followed by Linux, and then Windows. A device mandate would be anathema to the institution.
    - OOPMan 5y ago
      I feel like people in the US have a warped viewpoint on this because Apple hardware is so common there. Outside of the US, especially in poorer countries, Apple hardware is vastly less prevalent, both at universities and in general. You folks are victims of your own financial success :-)
Guthur 5y ago
"as second you can push your representatives for political and legislative reaction." Apple are not doing this for anything other than Political reasons. They see the writing on the wall, governments want this level and are either explicitly asking Apple in secret or implicitly encouraging it with their rhetoric.
- xiphias2 5y ago
  There's nothing implicit in what's going on. It's clear that Apple leadership promised the backdoor to people in governmental power and got great monopoly power in return.
  - stouset 5y ago
    This is utterly baseless speculation and overwhelmingly likely to be a pure fantasy narrative.
    - xiphias2 5y ago
      I agree with the first part of your sentence (it's 100% speculatiom on my part), but the fantasy would be thinking that Tim Cook cares about child pornography so much that he would turn 180 degrees in his principles after just 1-2 years.
      - stouset 5y ago
        The fantasy part is thinking that someone in the DOJ is offering up some sort of antitrust amnesty in exchange for reporting potential instances of CSAM to a private organization.
        commoner 5y ago
        While this collusion theory is unlikely to be true, NCMEC is not just any "private" organization. NCMEC was established by the U.S. Congress in 1984 and has received up to $40 million of funding from the U.S. Congress every year. https://web.archive.org/web/20121029010231/http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=4362 https://web.archive.org/web/20121029010231/http://www.missin... https://web.archive.org/web/20120111031718/http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/NewsEventServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=3701 https://web.archive.org/web/20120111031718/http://www.missin... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_Children%27s_Assistance_Reauthorization_Act_of_2013 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_Children%27s_Assistanc...
AuthorizedCust 5y ago
> I will not pay the bill on a multiple levels to be monitored and classified. You already do. It’s called taxation.
- kfrzcode 5y ago
  No, that's not what taxation is.
antattack 5y ago
Apple is fine with that since they have enough of people hooked. Google is fine with that too for the same reasons. Facebook just knows that it's an empty threat and they have WhatsUp, Instagram and Oculus to fallback on to. Microsoft just laughs all they way to the bank receiving government and business money.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
planet-and-halo 5y ago
This is my approach. If sovereign governments don't want to regulate in my interests and protect me from surveillance capitalism, I'm simply going to take every route I can find to opt out of the whole enterprise. I already have started just turning off my phone for the majority of the day and opted out of all the major social networks. Hopefully a sufficient critical mass of people take this route such that it destroys enough economic value to push society in a better direction with meaningful trust and security guarantees, but in the meantime as long as the entire digital ecosystem is untrustworthy and actively antagonistic towards me, I'd rather just have nothing to do with it.
Johnny555 5y ago
If I have something that spies 24/7 in my home or around me I throw it in the recycle bin. how do you define "spies"? As that could apply to pretty much any phone (smart phone or not, the cellular provider (and almost certainly the government)) tracks everywhere you go, modern TV's, cars, and many modern appliances have some degree of spying built in.
- freebuju 5y ago
  Technically, spying on someone involves the element of the subject not knowing that they are being watched. In this case, if you haven't been following this CSAM scandal and making use of iCloud as usual, should Apple turn this enigma machine on, you don't know your device is being used to spy on you. Am sure Apple will employ the best brains to craft some form of legalese to make sure you tick the "accept" button without fully understanding what it means in the event they roll out.
  - Johnny555 5y ago
    Do you know all the ways your TV is reporting your viewing history? Did you know it can also report your over the air viewing as well as what you play on your DVD player? Do they use the built-in microphone to listen for keywords? What about your smart refrigerator - you might expect it to report refrigerator data (temperature, door openings,etc), but would you be surprised if it's also reporting your bedtime, wake up time, and when you're on vacation? Do you know how long the cell phone company retains your location data, or what they do with it? Do most people even know the cell phone company tracks their location? Many appliances spy on us in ways we don't know.
    - freebuju 5y ago
      Maybe true, but I at least know in advance that these devices may be collecting data on me. I'd argue that this is mostly opt-in on my end since am fully aware of the data collection and have a rough idea of the extent this is done. Average Joe down the road doesn't give any care and still actively uses his Facebook account stands no chance against the spying. He can't see it coming. Personally, I live a simple "non-connected" life as much as I possibly can. Any service providers I choose to entertain have to do with the minimum required information to hold the account.
atok1 5y ago
I can proudly say I am one of those people building a private, better, future :)
Terretta 5y ago
> If I have something that spies 24/7 in my home or around me I throw it in the recycle bin. Unless you’ve figured out how to eliminate the pervasive use of common client SDKs from popular mobile apps, or forgo mobile apps altogether, this is hyperbole. Watch a MITM while running Android or iOS, you’ll discover a wide array of apps using a ‘usual suspects’ set of client SDKs, all checking in frequently. Go read the docs for those SDKs. Turns out they’re offering any number of user analytic, registration, or management conveniences. Easy to see why devs include them like boilerplate. Look closer, you’ll find them doing cross app and cross device linking and behavior aggregation, and “sharing with our partners”. Tracing further, the partners are adtech. Look more broadly, you’ll find these used as sources by firms commercially offering user screening, fraud prevention, credit approval, etc. to enterprises that are making increasingly automated decisions about who qualifies and who doesn’t. We aren’t talking about this*, and that’s weird. --- * Footnote: We talked about it when weather apps were using some offending location SDKs, Apple got more aggressive on surfacing ongoing user location tracking. We talk about it when one firm such as Facebook does it across their own properties. We don’t talk about it when everyone from indie devs to mega banks are doing it by using these client SDKs and libs, either on purpose or inadvertently.
- nbzso 5y ago
  This is hyperbole. Obviously. There somewhere in my house iPhone SE (the old one, and the last iPhone that I bought) which is used for emergency banking with mobile apps and emergency phone calls. When outside I use regular flip-phone. Never used Siri. Never used iCloud, deleted Dropbox in 2012 and moved to multiple Synology NAS stations. Everything that I have to do is channeled trough desktops or laptop computers. I run Little Snitch (since v.2) on macs and Open Snitch on my Linux boxes. If I want to take casual photo - Sony RX100 is handy. If I want more serious stuff - LeicaM240/Summilux is enough for me. My cars have Garmins for navigation and paper maps for backup:) There is no internet connection without VPN. Never used "subscription" based entertainment and never will. Never bought into Bluetooth, Noise canceling, Shitty design headphone thing. My first iPad Pro 12 WIFI is with broken WIFI and runs only Procreate and Filebrowser app, soon to be abandoned for Cintiq/Krita combination. I left the smartphone / social media sickness long time ago. As a result I found immense reserve of mental and creative energy, normal sleep and lack of depression. Since this "fabulous" move from the geniuses at Apple Glass Doughnut, I have payed overtime to my developers to remove macOS from production and install ARCH/Manjaro over Apple hardware (happily no T1s in my company). The designers Apple machines are running Catalina and are semi air-gaped. Writing this on an old MacBook Air with Pop!_OS on it. Luckily I invested in multi-platform software and in the future even designers will run Linuxes with Windows 10 VMs (properly sand-boxed).

by nbzso 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

monkeybutton 5y ago

Have you tried to buy a new car or a home appliance recently? Its nigh impossible to buy something new that is plain old and dumb.

nbzso 5y ago
Yes, and this is a challenge. And nothing will change until your refrigerator reports you to the police for having too much beer in your possession:) Than all the "nothing to hide" people will revolt.
- monkeybutton 5y ago
  I'm not so worried about the fridge ratting me out. Cars on the other hand have lots of potential. Every traffic light could have a red light camera if it's the car watching and reporting.
  - jorvi 5y ago
    In The Netherlands we had this problem with vehicle plate scanners. At first, they were strictly for vehicle tax purposes. Then later it came out they could be used by our three (well, four) letter agency in extraordinary circumstances. Then the police could request access in extreme cases, then less extreme, and now the ‘requesting access’ is nothing more than an automated process that is logged. Build it and they will come.
    - ryantgtg 5y ago
      Sounds like you’re describing an external device monitoring vehicle actions. The person you’re replying to is describing the vehicle monitoring and reporting its own actions. In my opinion, people have proven themselves too irresponsible in cars (in a way that results in them regularly killing other people), and while I dislike surveillance, I am for the monitoring/reporting measures that are in some European countries.
      - parineum 5y ago
        He's describing an already existing slippery slope to warn against the slippery slope of putting surveillance in the cars themselves.
      - monkeybutton 5y ago
        Right. Like Apple's on-device scanning and reporting, cars could scan and report bad behaviours. Toyotas already can detect when a driver is drowsy based on their driving and prompts them to take a break. How hard would it be to make it call police when the driving is severely impaired?
      - 5y ago
mark_l_watson 5y ago
Yesterday while driving my wife to the nearest large town for shopping (one hour each way) I was explaining my thought process on getting an Android phone with an alternative software stack. The most painful part of this proposed transition is that our 2021 Honda Pilot basically becomes whichever of our iPhones is currently synched, and let me tell you, this is damned convenient (pun intended). Currently I am using the full range of ProtonMail products, and have my Google, Apple, and device settings as strong-privacy as I can. Google is a good example: I use a range of paid for Google services but except for YouTube Premium, I have data collection turned off. I let Google store YouTube data for 30 days, and still get a good user experience. As others here have said, stay away from any smart home devices. EDIT: reading this article (and her book Privacy is Power) yesterday is what kicked off our conversation. People who protect their privacy have advantages over people who don’t.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  I actually feel this one a lot: Android Auto and it's contemporaries are surprisingly great experiences on the road, and it's going to be tough to drop it going forwards. As long as my PinePhone ships with Bluetooth, I should be okay.
- nbzso 5y ago
  People who protect their privacy have advantages over people who don’t. This is the essential thing that we as a tech savvy professionals must communicate to the normal users. The key word is "advantages". We all like having one or two. Blurring the lines of "ownership" and "renting" is the global corporate plan for the future. But I have a question: If data is the new petrol, and we all are the source, why they expect us not only to give it free but to pay the extraction fee?
  - mark_l_watson 5y ago
    If they don't have pay us for our data, then they will not. I am pretty much hard-over on privacy, yet I carefully use many fine Google services, keep a Facebook account because I really enjoy my Oculus, etc. I am conflicted about Apple because my professional and personal digital lives are so smooth with an Apple Watch, and iPhone, iPad, and M1 MacBook Pro. Low friction. I have several Linux laptops, including a really nice System76. The thought of getting a CalyxOS Android, and just using Linux is a rough decision.
kfrzcode 5y ago
Yeah, impossible, or like, so totally "impossible"
lrvick 5y ago
This is why I only buy used cars and motorcycles these days. I don't want a vehicle I can't repair or control as I please.
- nbzso 5y ago
  Imagine Apple car, with closed software and monitoring 24/7. Hey, if you want convenience and virtue signaling you will pay for the privilege. They will collect the data, feed it to neural nets and you will be happy to be the petrol of advancements. No need for repair and ownership, services, services, services. Monitoring, monitoring, monitoring. Hey there is no other way to deliver a product. This is the future. Smartphones are privacy invasive devices for the individual. Cars will be the automated police and control of the public. Lidars, cameras, lasers and mobility, what a surveillance dream. Imagine a city with thousands of Apple cars, who are connected to the mothership and are working for "the man" 24/7. You can collect payments from users and governments as a reliable partner. I like cars, cars as sculpture on wheels, cars as a devices for transportation, cars as an expression of individuality. Individuality which will be damned in the future, if you are thinking for yourself and not follow the trends you will be casted out as a lone wolf, a predator or even a terrorist. I have chosen the hill on which I will die. Individuality. Land ownership. Energy efficiency of the grid. Skills for survival and manufacturing. FOSS. And actually instead of buying "the new shitty cars" I will convert my classic car collection to EV https://bit.ly/3kXRe4Z https://bit.ly/3kXRe4Z.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
Yeah, someone here told me cars have microphones installed somewhere now. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they also had GPS and wireless internet connection.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- smegger001 5y ago
  >Yeah, someone here told me cars have microphones installed somewhere now. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if they also had GPS and wireless internet connection. ??? I am honestly not sure if this is this sarcastic or just entirely unaware of car infotainment systems development over the last 15-20 years? Yes many cars have a microphone it is so when your cellphone connects via bluetooth to your car for music/audiobook/gps navigation/podcast etc you can answer calls via speakerphone. As for GPS that has been pretty much standard for upper mid-range vehicles at least ten years and a upgrade option for going on 20. internet also for over a decade but is usually from phone tethering. welcome to the 21st century.
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    I don't care much about cars. I knew they had engine control computers but that's it. So how many years do we have left before we need to worry about car malware? Am I gonna have to read a privacy policy next time I buy one? Are they gonna collect and sell my GPS data?

devwastaken 5y ago

Closed markets guarantee income. Apple products are not simply consumer devices, they're used by big box stores to handle inventory, many companies require them for specific apps/ecosystem. Apple and universities conspire against students to require the purchase of MacBooks and other apple hardware, paid for by funny money student loans, which ultimately ends up being tax payers footing the bill for apple hardware. Apple is a company reliant on public tax payer dollars, and should be regulated as such.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
SamuelAdams 5y ago
I worked for a university in the IT department for a few years. Everything we implemented needed to work for Windows and Mac devices. For mobile, both iOS and Android were supported. Students were free to purchase whatever hardware they wanted. At the end of the day they could get their studies done on either device. The only courses that required an apple computer were the iOS development class, and with Swift becoming more popular I believe there’s a way to do that on windows now. Either way if a student did not have access to an apple computer there were entire labs with apple devices they could use. Universities are not mandating apple hardware. Not by a long shot. Maybe your anecdotal experience is different but I can assure you that is not the norm.
- nr2x 5y ago
  At CMU at least you see a Macs, followed by Linux, and then Windows. A device mandate would be anathema to the institution.
  - OOPMan 5y ago
    I feel like people in the US have a warped viewpoint on this because Apple hardware is so common there. Outside of the US, especially in poorer countries, Apple hardware is vastly less prevalent, both at universities and in general. You folks are victims of your own financial success :-)

Guthur 5y ago

"as second you can push your representatives for political and legislative reaction." Apple are not doing this for anything other than Political reasons. They see the writing on the wall, governments want this level and are either explicitly asking Apple in secret or implicitly encouraging it with their rhetoric.

xiphias2 5y ago
There's nothing implicit in what's going on. It's clear that Apple leadership promised the backdoor to people in governmental power and got great monopoly power in return.
- stouset 5y ago
  This is utterly baseless speculation and overwhelmingly likely to be a pure fantasy narrative.
  - xiphias2 5y ago
    I agree with the first part of your sentence (it's 100% speculatiom on my part), but the fantasy would be thinking that Tim Cook cares about child pornography so much that he would turn 180 degrees in his principles after just 1-2 years.
    - stouset 5y ago
      The fantasy part is thinking that someone in the DOJ is offering up some sort of antitrust amnesty in exchange for reporting potential instances of CSAM to a private organization.
      - commoner 5y ago
        While this collusion theory is unlikely to be true, NCMEC is not just any "private" organization. NCMEC was established by the U.S. Congress in 1984 and has received up to $40 million of funding from the U.S. Congress every year. https://web.archive.org/web/20121029010231/http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/PageServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=4362 https://web.archive.org/web/20121029010231/http://www.missin... https://web.archive.org/web/20120111031718/http://www.missingkids.com/missingkids/servlet/NewsEventServlet?LanguageCountry=en_US&PageId=3701 https://web.archive.org/web/20120111031718/http://www.missin... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_Children%27s_Assistance_Reauthorization_Act_of_2013 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_Children%27s_Assistanc...

AuthorizedCust 5y ago

> I will not pay the bill on a multiple levels to be monitored and classified. You already do. It’s called taxation.

kfrzcode 5y ago
No, that's not what taxation is.

antattack 5y ago

Apple is fine with that since they have enough of people hooked. Google is fine with that too for the same reasons. Facebook just knows that it's an empty threat and they have WhatsUp, Instagram and Oculus to fallback on to. Microsoft just laughs all they way to the bank receiving government and business money.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

planet-and-halo 5y ago

This is my approach. If sovereign governments don't want to regulate in my interests and protect me from surveillance capitalism, I'm simply going to take every route I can find to opt out of the whole enterprise. I already have started just turning off my phone for the majority of the day and opted out of all the major social networks. Hopefully a sufficient critical mass of people take this route such that it destroys enough economic value to push society in a better direction with meaningful trust and security guarantees, but in the meantime as long as the entire digital ecosystem is untrustworthy and actively antagonistic towards me, I'd rather just have nothing to do with it.

Johnny555 5y ago

If I have something that spies 24/7 in my home or around me I throw it in the recycle bin. how do you define "spies"? As that could apply to pretty much any phone (smart phone or not, the cellular provider (and almost certainly the government)) tracks everywhere you go, modern TV's, cars, and many modern appliances have some degree of spying built in.

freebuju 5y ago
Technically, spying on someone involves the element of the subject not knowing that they are being watched. In this case, if you haven't been following this CSAM scandal and making use of iCloud as usual, should Apple turn this enigma machine on, you don't know your device is being used to spy on you. Am sure Apple will employ the best brains to craft some form of legalese to make sure you tick the "accept" button without fully understanding what it means in the event they roll out.
- Johnny555 5y ago
  Do you know all the ways your TV is reporting your viewing history? Did you know it can also report your over the air viewing as well as what you play on your DVD player? Do they use the built-in microphone to listen for keywords? What about your smart refrigerator - you might expect it to report refrigerator data (temperature, door openings,etc), but would you be surprised if it's also reporting your bedtime, wake up time, and when you're on vacation? Do you know how long the cell phone company retains your location data, or what they do with it? Do most people even know the cell phone company tracks their location? Many appliances spy on us in ways we don't know.
  - freebuju 5y ago
    Maybe true, but I at least know in advance that these devices may be collecting data on me. I'd argue that this is mostly opt-in on my end since am fully aware of the data collection and have a rough idea of the extent this is done. Average Joe down the road doesn't give any care and still actively uses his Facebook account stands no chance against the spying. He can't see it coming. Personally, I live a simple "non-connected" life as much as I possibly can. Any service providers I choose to entertain have to do with the minimum required information to hold the account.

atok1 5y ago

I can proudly say I am one of those people building a private, better, future :)

Terretta 5y ago

> If I have something that spies 24/7 in my home or around me I throw it in the recycle bin. Unless you’ve figured out how to eliminate the pervasive use of common client SDKs from popular mobile apps, or forgo mobile apps altogether, this is hyperbole. Watch a MITM while running Android or iOS, you’ll discover a wide array of apps using a ‘usual suspects’ set of client SDKs, all checking in frequently. Go read the docs for those SDKs. Turns out they’re offering any number of user analytic, registration, or management conveniences. Easy to see why devs include them like boilerplate. Look closer, you’ll find them doing cross app and cross device linking and behavior aggregation, and “sharing with our partners”. Tracing further, the partners are adtech. Look more broadly, you’ll find these used as sources by firms commercially offering user screening, fraud prevention, credit approval, etc. to enterprises that are making increasingly automated decisions about who qualifies and who doesn’t. We aren’t talking about this*, and that’s weird. --- * Footnote: We talked about it when weather apps were using some offending location SDKs, Apple got more aggressive on surfacing ongoing user location tracking. We talk about it when one firm such as Facebook does it across their own properties. We don’t talk about it when everyone from indie devs to mega banks are doing it by using these client SDKs and libs, either on purpose or inadvertently.

nbzso 5y ago
This is hyperbole. Obviously. There somewhere in my house iPhone SE (the old one, and the last iPhone that I bought) which is used for emergency banking with mobile apps and emergency phone calls. When outside I use regular flip-phone. Never used Siri. Never used iCloud, deleted Dropbox in 2012 and moved to multiple Synology NAS stations. Everything that I have to do is channeled trough desktops or laptop computers. I run Little Snitch (since v.2) on macs and Open Snitch on my Linux boxes. If I want to take casual photo - Sony RX100 is handy. If I want more serious stuff - LeicaM240/Summilux is enough for me. My cars have Garmins for navigation and paper maps for backup:) There is no internet connection without VPN. Never used "subscription" based entertainment and never will. Never bought into Bluetooth, Noise canceling, Shitty design headphone thing. My first iPad Pro 12 WIFI is with broken WIFI and runs only Procreate and Filebrowser app, soon to be abandoned for Cintiq/Krita combination. I left the smartphone / social media sickness long time ago. As a result I found immense reserve of mental and creative energy, normal sleep and lack of depression. Since this "fabulous" move from the geniuses at Apple Glass Doughnut, I have payed overtime to my developers to remove macOS from production and install ARCH/Manjaro over Apple hardware (happily no T1s in my company). The designers Apple machines are running Catalina and are semi air-gaped. Writing this on an old MacBook Air with Pop!_OS on it. Luckily I invested in multi-platform software and in the future even designers will run Linuxes with Windows 10 VMs (properly sand-boxed).