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> the entire reason Maybe it’s a teeny weeny more complex than that? Plenty of cultures and religions that did the same don’t exist any more. So I don’t think

by zpeti 5y ago

> the entire reason Maybe it’s a teeny weeny more complex than that? Plenty of cultures and religions that did the same don’t exist any more. So I don’t think killing heretics and taking their children is a guarantee to success for a religion.

nonameiguess 5y ago
Christian dominance in Europe coincided with a period of several centuries where European explorers and colonialists also had far better ships and firepower than everyone else. Other cultures that attempted the same thing never had a monopoly on global reach. Thus, things like Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, the Persian Empire, Islamic Caliphate, they were all inherently regional, even if they managed to span very large regions. European Christians were the first to be able to do this while having trans-oceanic shipping capabilities. It's not to say it'll be permanent or anything. All cultures and religions eventually don't exist any more. Christianity will be no different. It's also not to say Christianity is uniquely evil or anything. I don't believe that at all. But I don't find it particularly convincing to try and contrast some unique lack of charity toward non-believers on the part of wokeness with "I, as a Christian." Christianity may exist in the world at large for many reasons, possibly even the minuscule chance there is some small kernel of non-literal truth in the claim that believing Jesus Christ was the human incarnation of God sent to Earth so he could sacrifice himself to himself to redeem mankind of the otherwise unforgivable sin of being descended from people who ate a special fruit somewhere in Mesopotamia 6,000 years ago, and accepting this truth is the only way to avoid spending eternity being engulfed by metaphorical flame, but it certainly only exists in the Americas because of cultural and literal genocides committed against the non-Christian people who were already here before you. It's the only reason I have a Spanish name and Catholic family. And I don't resent it. It's the way history works. It's fine. But I don't want to see Christians or anyone else sitting on some high horse pretending they're uniquely charitable and graceful, and it's only those other people who are your ideological enemies that are the real fascists. Step back for a few moments of strong self-reflection whenever you feel yourself being seduced by that belief. It goes for the woke, too. I'm not saying they're great, either, but they haven't forcefully conquered four remote continents yet.
- dukeofdoom 5y ago
  Upto last month America was trying to commit cultural genocide against the Taliban. The idea that all cultures are equal and worth preserving is ridiculous. Noble savage trope is tiring. Not only were the multiple tribes that inhabited North America in constant warfare with each other. They also employed undeniable barbarity and torture on their prisoners. The world needs to progress. On the macro level its better that the more technologically advanced culture wins and takes over. Unless you think Taliban winning out is some sort of objective positive, because they were there first.
  - jqgatsby 5y ago
    I'm curious whether dukeofdoom's post will be removed. It's an offensive take, to be sure, but I wonder if it's over the line of what hnews is able to tolerate these days.
  - nonameiguess 5y ago
    Jesus, dude. I rather specifically said I'm aware that this is a normal way cultures go out and I'm perfectly happy to be American rather than whatever obscure Native Mexican tribe I'd have been a part of otherwise. And I'm well aware the Aztecs were no better than the Conquistadores. All I'm asking is everyone here, including you, take a look in the mirror and read some history when you start trying to set your particular tribe up as somehow uniquely charitable and forgiving in contrast to the ultimate tyranny of American college students. You guys are vandalizing this comments section with hysteria around how the "woke" are so uniquely uncharitable to those they deem as ideologically other while showing absolutely no charity to any of the people you're setting up as bogeyman. Where does this cycle end?
    - dukeofdoom 5y ago
      Thank you for clarify your position. Even though I replied to your comment, it wasn't an attack on you personally. Sorry if you took it that way. More of a cultural comment and society at large.

by zpeti 5y ago

nonameiguess 5y ago

Christian dominance in Europe coincided with a period of several centuries where European explorers and colonialists also had far better ships and firepower than everyone else. Other cultures that attempted the same thing never had a monopoly on global reach. Thus, things like Genghis Khan, Alexander the Great, the Persian Empire, Islamic Caliphate, they were all inherently regional, even if they managed to span very large regions. European Christians were the first to be able to do this while having trans-oceanic shipping capabilities. It's not to say it'll be permanent or anything. All cultures and religions eventually don't exist any more. Christianity will be no different. It's also not to say Christianity is uniquely evil or anything. I don't believe that at all. But I don't find it particularly convincing to try and contrast some unique lack of charity toward non-believers on the part of wokeness with "I, as a Christian." Christianity may exist in the world at large for many reasons, possibly even the minuscule chance there is some small kernel of non-literal truth in the claim that believing Jesus Christ was the human incarnation of God sent to Earth so he could sacrifice himself to himself to redeem mankind of the otherwise unforgivable sin of being descended from people who ate a special fruit somewhere in Mesopotamia 6,000 years ago, and accepting this truth is the only way to avoid spending eternity being engulfed by metaphorical flame, but it certainly only exists in the Americas because of cultural and literal genocides committed against the non-Christian people who were already here before you. It's the only reason I have a Spanish name and Catholic family. And I don't resent it. It's the way history works. It's fine. But I don't want to see Christians or anyone else sitting on some high horse pretending they're uniquely charitable and graceful, and it's only those other people who are your ideological enemies that are the real fascists. Step back for a few moments of strong self-reflection whenever you feel yourself being seduced by that belief. It goes for the woke, too. I'm not saying they're great, either, but they haven't forcefully conquered four remote continents yet.

dukeofdoom 5y ago
Upto last month America was trying to commit cultural genocide against the Taliban. The idea that all cultures are equal and worth preserving is ridiculous. Noble savage trope is tiring. Not only were the multiple tribes that inhabited North America in constant warfare with each other. They also employed undeniable barbarity and torture on their prisoners. The world needs to progress. On the macro level its better that the more technologically advanced culture wins and takes over. Unless you think Taliban winning out is some sort of objective positive, because they were there first.
- jqgatsby 5y ago
  I'm curious whether dukeofdoom's post will be removed. It's an offensive take, to be sure, but I wonder if it's over the line of what hnews is able to tolerate these days.
- nonameiguess 5y ago
  Jesus, dude. I rather specifically said I'm aware that this is a normal way cultures go out and I'm perfectly happy to be American rather than whatever obscure Native Mexican tribe I'd have been a part of otherwise. And I'm well aware the Aztecs were no better than the Conquistadores. All I'm asking is everyone here, including you, take a look in the mirror and read some history when you start trying to set your particular tribe up as somehow uniquely charitable and forgiving in contrast to the ultimate tyranny of American college students. You guys are vandalizing this comments section with hysteria around how the "woke" are so uniquely uncharitable to those they deem as ideologically other while showing absolutely no charity to any of the people you're setting up as bogeyman. Where does this cycle end?
  - dukeofdoom 5y ago
    Thank you for clarify your position. Even though I replied to your comment, it wasn't an attack on you personally. Sorry if you took it that way. More of a cultural comment and society at large.