5 ms·

No, actually testosterone levels have been dropping, sperm counts have been dropping, and American men are vastly more obese and overweight than they were even

No, actually testosterone levels have been dropping, sperm counts have been dropping, and American men are vastly more obese and overweight than they were even 50 years ago. That is a change. Just watch one of those old “Berlin in the 1920s” or “NYC in the 1970s” videos. You’ll quickly notice the almost complete lack of overweight people.

simonklitj 5y ago
So, is the answer in our diet? Our types of jobs? This is an interesting phenomenon, and I wonder the cause.
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  Diet, sedentary jobs, lack of walkable cities, and (for better or worse) removal of shame culture. If you’ve spent any time in east Asia, you’ll notice that being overweight is strongly looked down upon by society at large. This shaming doesn’t exist in America.
  - amanaplanacanal 5y ago
    As to shaming, I suspect causation goes the other direction, fat shaming has decreased because the number of fat people has increased. Looking at the time frame, I don’t think the other things you mention fit either. They just haven’t changed that much since the 70s. And they don’t explain wild and lab animals also being fatter now.
    - simonklitj 5y ago
      I think you’re right. What about general propensity to obesity (as in genetically, or whatever) being more prevalent? I know people that eat far worse than me, and do far less than me, but are still far skinnier than me.
hellbannedguy 5y ago
I wonder about the testosterone. I have never had my testosterone checked. I knew one guy who had has checked, and it was by a female doctor who put him on pills. I've always wondered where that testosterone level database is? Maybe they test in the military? I don't know, but would like to know. I just found a study, but didn't dig into it: "Travison and his team analyzed data from the Massachusetts Male Aging Study, a long-term investigation of aging in about 1,700 Boston-area men. Data from the men were collected for three time intervals: 1987-1989, 1995-1997, and 2002-2004."
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  It is a pretty common thing for researchers to study. Here is one: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1743609519315292 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S17436...
kongin 5y ago
>Just watch one of those old “Berlin in the 1920s” or “NYC in the 1970s” videos. You’ll quickly notice the almost complete lack of overweight people. Being fat in the 80s is being skinny today. It's uncanny rewatching movies where the fat kid everyone picked on then would be on the average to skinny side today. Whenever I bring that up I get someone popping out of the wood work saying that the 80s had heroin chik, unrealistic body expectations and on and on. But the fattest state in 2000 (Mississippi) is skinnier than the skinniest state today (Colorado) [0]. And in 1990 the fattest state (again Mississippi) was half as fat as Colorado is today. Forget being transgendered the majority of the US would look barely human to anyone from the 80s. [0] https://stateofchildhoodobesity.org/adult-obesity/ https://stateofchildhoodobesity.org/adult-obesity/
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > Being fat in the 80s is being skinny today. No, its not. > It's uncanny rewatching movies where the fat kid everyone picked on then would be on the average to skinny side today. The distribution of body types in film (in the 1980s and otherwise) represents the fashions of the motion picture industry, not (except coincidentally) broader society. The relation of that fashion to broader society is very much not consistent. > Forget being transgendered the majority of the US would look barely human to anyone from the 80s. Being an actual person from the 1980s (70s, in fact) I can say with some confidence that this is not true.
  - ceilingcorner 5y ago
    So obesity rates haven’t increased dramatically? If that’s your argument, I’m afraid you’re simply misinformed. And no, there are plenty of videos of normal people that have nothing to do with “the fashions of the motion picture industry.” Millions of video clips are available right now online.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > So obesity rates haven’t increased dramatically? They’ve increased to “a very large minority, even in the fattest state”. What used to be “fat” has not become “thin”, its just “fat" has become more common. > And no, there are plenty of videos of normal people that have nothing to do with “the fashions of the motion picture industry.” Yes, and they’ll show that overweight and obese people are greater proportions of the total. That I didn’t argue against. The ridiculous hyperbole is what I took issue with.
goodpoint 5y ago
You are confusing social pressure with environmental changes. marcus_holmes correctly points out that in some cultures men are under more pressure to fit into a gender stereotype around being really muscular. (And it's well known that women receive even more pressure to be slim and so on) This is true regardless of the worsening food quality and availability making people fat. Or environmental factors reducing sperm count and so on.
etempleton 5y ago
I am guessing it is mostly exercise and diet related. People 50-70 years ago on average lived a very different life style in the US. The fear was that people weren’t getting enough food in the United States and the modern food industry was born and kind of over corrected and now obesity is the problem we are trying to solve. On top of that I am shocked by how little the average American exercises, and I just don’t mean going to the gym and running, I mean basic, walking and doing something, anything physical.
amanaplanacanal 5y ago
It’s likely something environmental. Wild animals and even lab animals on strict diets are fatter now than they were in the 70s. A recent article discussed on HN proposed plastics and lithium contamination as two possible culprits.

simonklitj 5y ago

So, is the answer in our diet? Our types of jobs? This is an interesting phenomenon, and I wonder the cause.

ceilingcorner 5y ago
Diet, sedentary jobs, lack of walkable cities, and (for better or worse) removal of shame culture. If you’ve spent any time in east Asia, you’ll notice that being overweight is strongly looked down upon by society at large. This shaming doesn’t exist in America.
- amanaplanacanal 5y ago
  As to shaming, I suspect causation goes the other direction, fat shaming has decreased because the number of fat people has increased. Looking at the time frame, I don’t think the other things you mention fit either. They just haven’t changed that much since the 70s. And they don’t explain wild and lab animals also being fatter now.
  - simonklitj 5y ago
    I think you’re right. What about general propensity to obesity (as in genetically, or whatever) being more prevalent? I know people that eat far worse than me, and do far less than me, but are still far skinnier than me.

hellbannedguy 5y ago

I wonder about the testosterone. I have never had my testosterone checked. I knew one guy who had has checked, and it was by a female doctor who put him on pills. I've always wondered where that testosterone level database is? Maybe they test in the military? I don't know, but would like to know. I just found a study, but didn't dig into it: "Travison and his team analyzed data from the Massachusetts Male Aging Study, a long-term investigation of aging in about 1,700 Boston-area men. Data from the men were collected for three time intervals: 1987-1989, 1995-1997, and 2002-2004."

ceilingcorner 5y ago
It is a pretty common thing for researchers to study. Here is one: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1743609519315292 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S17436...

kongin 5y ago

>Just watch one of those old “Berlin in the 1920s” or “NYC in the 1970s” videos. You’ll quickly notice the almost complete lack of overweight people. Being fat in the 80s is being skinny today. It's uncanny rewatching movies where the fat kid everyone picked on then would be on the average to skinny side today. Whenever I bring that up I get someone popping out of the wood work saying that the 80s had heroin chik, unrealistic body expectations and on and on. But the fattest state in 2000 (Mississippi) is skinnier than the skinniest state today (Colorado) [0]. And in 1990 the fattest state (again Mississippi) was half as fat as Colorado is today. Forget being transgendered the majority of the US would look barely human to anyone from the 80s. [0] https://stateofchildhoodobesity.org/adult-obesity/ https://stateofchildhoodobesity.org/adult-obesity/

dragonwriter 5y ago
> Being fat in the 80s is being skinny today. No, its not. > It's uncanny rewatching movies where the fat kid everyone picked on then would be on the average to skinny side today. The distribution of body types in film (in the 1980s and otherwise) represents the fashions of the motion picture industry, not (except coincidentally) broader society. The relation of that fashion to broader society is very much not consistent. > Forget being transgendered the majority of the US would look barely human to anyone from the 80s. Being an actual person from the 1980s (70s, in fact) I can say with some confidence that this is not true.
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  So obesity rates haven’t increased dramatically? If that’s your argument, I’m afraid you’re simply misinformed. And no, there are plenty of videos of normal people that have nothing to do with “the fashions of the motion picture industry.” Millions of video clips are available right now online.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > So obesity rates haven’t increased dramatically? They’ve increased to “a very large minority, even in the fattest state”. What used to be “fat” has not become “thin”, its just “fat" has become more common. > And no, there are plenty of videos of normal people that have nothing to do with “the fashions of the motion picture industry.” Yes, and they’ll show that overweight and obese people are greater proportions of the total. That I didn’t argue against. The ridiculous hyperbole is what I took issue with.

goodpoint 5y ago

You are confusing social pressure with environmental changes. marcus_holmes correctly points out that in some cultures men are under more pressure to fit into a gender stereotype around being really muscular. (And it's well known that women receive even more pressure to be slim and so on) This is true regardless of the worsening food quality and availability making people fat. Or environmental factors reducing sperm count and so on.

etempleton 5y ago

I am guessing it is mostly exercise and diet related. People 50-70 years ago on average lived a very different life style in the US. The fear was that people weren’t getting enough food in the United States and the modern food industry was born and kind of over corrected and now obesity is the problem we are trying to solve. On top of that I am shocked by how little the average American exercises, and I just don’t mean going to the gym and running, I mean basic, walking and doing something, anything physical.

amanaplanacanal 5y ago

It’s likely something environmental. Wild animals and even lab animals on strict diets are fatter now than they were in the 70s. A recent article discussed on HN proposed plastics and lithium contamination as two possible culprits.