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Google: We scan all the data you upload to us and store it unencrypted so we can scan it again if we feel like it. Apple: We scan only the data you decide to u

Google: We scan all the data you upload to us and store it unencrypted so we can scan it again if we feel like it. Apple: We scan only the data you decide to upload to us before you do so and store it encrypted so nobody, even us can see what it is. Press / FBI: Apple bad!

tyfon 5y ago
One has marketed it self as the privacy champion, the other has never pretended. That is the main difference. I'm still sticking to iphone due to it since it was not going to be implemented where I live anyway, but switching back to google would not be a good option. I'm currently looking at the pro 1x[1] phone though. [1] https://www.fxtec.com/pro1x https://www.fxtec.com/pro1x
- rambambram 5y ago
  Only because "Do no evil" is basically the lowest threshold one can think of.
  - smoldesu 5y ago
    Their motto was actually "don't be evil," but the shine wore off that apple pretty quick. It was dropped shortly after the dotcom explosion.
feanaro 5y ago
You're making it sound like stuff stored in the iCloud is E2E encrypted. And yes, both are bad, let's have none of that.
fossuser 5y ago
Yeah this is basically my take too. It really reveals how low quality most public discussion is on any complex or nuanced topic - specifics be damned.
- willis936 5y ago
  But OP's comment isn't specific. It's quite general. A specific summary would at least include details about how AOSP is open source and auditable, so if you de-Google a google phone (which is something that is actually possible, unlike Apple phones) you can be more confident that it isn't spying on you. Other relevant details are that Apple phones are entirely closed. No one can be confident of anything that this black box does. Everyone's lowered their guard because Apple says "no no we're on your side". This move shows Apple actually is not on your side. Little details like that, damned as they may be, are what make this an upsetting topic.
  - shuckles 5y ago
    Their point is general because the discourse has been run through analogies instead of facts. They don’t have specific arguments to respond to. Any time you get to the facts, they’re weak. iOS may be closed source, but there are avenues for introspection: jailbreak, security researcher device program, disassemblers, proxies, etc. You’d be hard pressed to design a scanning system which implements behaviors such as “scan your whole phone” without detection, versus alternative server side implementations where the purpose and processing is totally opaque.
    - willis936 5y ago
      >You’d be hard pressed to design a scanning system which implements behaviors such as “scan your whole phone” without detection On this point I greatly disagree. Apple has control of the entire stack and shares nothing about it. If you jailbreak an iPhone you still don't know what happens when you send bits of data into any block of an SoC or modem. There are computers inside Apple devices that have no avenue for being audited. Apple having total control of their devices is deeply ingrained in their technical identity. It only works if you trust Apple. Apple has shown that trusting them is a bad idea. That's why this is news.
      - shuckles 5y ago
        The point you have to show is why trusting them has been demonstrated as a bad idea, but instead you take that as given. The rest of your argument is very ambiguous. Shares nothing about their stack? The entire controversy began with an extremely transparent announcement about future, planned behavior. Jailbreaking gives you visibility into the application processor, and the secure element must be trusted on any modern smartphone. If you compare to devices without one, you are comparing apples to oranges. There are plenty of closed source or hard to audit components of every system. Do you trust your baseband? Like I said, the argument has been run through analogies and the facts are quite contingent.
jasonlfunk 5y ago
You forgot the most important part! Google is doing to for their own profit while Apple is only trying to stop child exploitation.
morinoandou 5y ago
Google: We scan everything that happens on our servers Apple: We scan your phone
yunohn 5y ago
> Apple: … store it encrypted so nobody, even us can see what it is. Since when is iCloud end to end encrypted? In fact, it’s explicitly not encrypted, at the request of the FBI. source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive-idUSKBN1ZK1CT https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv...
BostonEnginerd 5y ago
I don’t believe that the data stored in iCloud is encrypted from Apple since you can view it through the iCloud website.

tyfon 5y ago

One has marketed it self as the privacy champion, the other has never pretended. That is the main difference. I'm still sticking to iphone due to it since it was not going to be implemented where I live anyway, but switching back to google would not be a good option. I'm currently looking at the pro 1x[1] phone though. [1] https://www.fxtec.com/pro1x https://www.fxtec.com/pro1x

rambambram 5y ago
Only because "Do no evil" is basically the lowest threshold one can think of.
- smoldesu 5y ago
  Their motto was actually "don't be evil," but the shine wore off that apple pretty quick. It was dropped shortly after the dotcom explosion.

feanaro 5y ago

You're making it sound like stuff stored in the iCloud is E2E encrypted. And yes, both are bad, let's have none of that.

fossuser 5y ago

Yeah this is basically my take too. It really reveals how low quality most public discussion is on any complex or nuanced topic - specifics be damned.

willis936 5y ago
But OP's comment isn't specific. It's quite general. A specific summary would at least include details about how AOSP is open source and auditable, so if you de-Google a google phone (which is something that is actually possible, unlike Apple phones) you can be more confident that it isn't spying on you. Other relevant details are that Apple phones are entirely closed. No one can be confident of anything that this black box does. Everyone's lowered their guard because Apple says "no no we're on your side". This move shows Apple actually is not on your side. Little details like that, damned as they may be, are what make this an upsetting topic.
- shuckles 5y ago
  Their point is general because the discourse has been run through analogies instead of facts. They don’t have specific arguments to respond to. Any time you get to the facts, they’re weak. iOS may be closed source, but there are avenues for introspection: jailbreak, security researcher device program, disassemblers, proxies, etc. You’d be hard pressed to design a scanning system which implements behaviors such as “scan your whole phone” without detection, versus alternative server side implementations where the purpose and processing is totally opaque.
  - willis936 5y ago
    >You’d be hard pressed to design a scanning system which implements behaviors such as “scan your whole phone” without detection On this point I greatly disagree. Apple has control of the entire stack and shares nothing about it. If you jailbreak an iPhone you still don't know what happens when you send bits of data into any block of an SoC or modem. There are computers inside Apple devices that have no avenue for being audited. Apple having total control of their devices is deeply ingrained in their technical identity. It only works if you trust Apple. Apple has shown that trusting them is a bad idea. That's why this is news.
    - shuckles 5y ago
      The point you have to show is why trusting them has been demonstrated as a bad idea, but instead you take that as given. The rest of your argument is very ambiguous. Shares nothing about their stack? The entire controversy began with an extremely transparent announcement about future, planned behavior. Jailbreaking gives you visibility into the application processor, and the secure element must be trusted on any modern smartphone. If you compare to devices without one, you are comparing apples to oranges. There are plenty of closed source or hard to audit components of every system. Do you trust your baseband? Like I said, the argument has been run through analogies and the facts are quite contingent.

jasonlfunk 5y ago

You forgot the most important part! Google is doing to for their own profit while Apple is only trying to stop child exploitation.

morinoandou 5y ago

Google: We scan everything that happens on our servers Apple: We scan your phone

yunohn 5y ago

> Apple: … store it encrypted so nobody, even us can see what it is. Since when is iCloud end to end encrypted? In fact, it’s explicitly not encrypted, at the request of the FBI. source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusive-idUSKBN1ZK1CT https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-fbi-icloud-exclusiv...

BostonEnginerd 5y ago

I don’t believe that the data stored in iCloud is encrypted from Apple since you can view it through the iCloud website.