5 ms·

Id recommend getting outside of your social circle/geo a bit more. I’ve never once experienced this in Denver, and have only ever seen gender pronouns be a thin

by soared 5y ago

Id recommend getting outside of your social circle/geo a bit more. I’ve never once experienced this in Denver, and have only ever seen gender pronouns be a thing on linkedin.

tablespoon 5y ago
>> It definitely seems as though specifying your preferred gender pronouns is no longer optional. This is required "in solidarity". Being an otherwise progressive person, I don't feel great about this and how quickly it happened. > Id recommend getting outside of your social circle/geo a bit more. I’ve never once experienced this in Denver, and have only ever seen gender pronouns be a thing on linkedin. I've started to see them in email signatures at work, but only in situations where such specification was entirely unnecessary. Though most cases have consistent enough formatting that there may be some corporate-standard signature template that has it now.
- netrus 5y ago
  I would love to have more pronouns in signatures. I cannot count the times I used Google picture search to figure out the gender of students from cultures I am not well educated about (Chinese, Indian, Arabic, Vietnamese ...). Many foreign students adopted a western name to mitigate such problems. Yikes!
  - yodsanklai 5y ago
    Never found this to be an issue. When in doubt, simply don't use the pronoun and use their first name to refer to them. > Many foreign students adopted a western name to mitigate such problems It has more to do with pronunciation.
  - Glide 5y ago
    The western name thing is all about pronunciation. It also helps when you realize all other personal information on a candidate might be redacted, except for a name. It predates the current cultural climate by decades.
- deanCommie 5y ago
  > in situations where such specification was entirely unnecessary Doing it in situations where such specification is entirely unnecessary is precisely how you normalize it not being weird. If the only people that had listed pronouns were ones that needed it, it would "other" them, and make pronoun preferences WEIRD and UNUSUAL. If we recognize that even before the cultural mainstream of transness, EVERYONE already had preferred pronouns (just the ones that happen to match their gender), then we can normalize it.
eweise 5y ago
My last job we were all highly encouraged by the CEO to add our preferred pronouns to our profiles. Just another reason I left.
- pugz 5y ago
  Us too. I found it super useful because I have lots of Chinese coworkers and I have no idea whether to use “he” or “she” based on their name. Edit: I didn’t see the last bit. Why did it factor into leaving? Were they aggressive about it or something?
  - ModernMech 5y ago
    As a teacher, I face the same situation. My roster says “Christine” but the student sets their name to “Chris” in the CMS and has traditionally masculine features, dress, and haircut. Do I go with “he” or “she”? Best to get pronouns out of the way during an introduction and dissipate the awkwardness. Sometimes I wonder if people who have the biggest issue with displaying pronouns don’t meet a lot of new people, especially new trans people. Displaying pronouns makes the process so much easier and less awkward!
    - spinach 5y ago
      But why not just say if a person is a man or a woman, why does it have to be pronouns. When I see pronouns, I then assume they believe in an ideology where people can actually change sex and basic reality is denied. Where people can simply declare the reality they want, and force others to play along. Why does everyone have to play along with this ideology, aka, the pronoun game.
      - deanCommie 5y ago
        > When I see pronouns, I then assume That's your fault, not the fault of the concept of pronouns. In the thread above, teachers and people working in international companies both explained benefits to having pronouns listed that have nothing to do with gender expression. So, your assumption is flawed. Secondly, let's consider your terminology: "Basic reality"; "force others to play along"; "pronoun game". Consider this scenario: You: "Hi, are you Matthew?" Matthew: "Yes, but actually I prefer Matt, could you call me Matt?" Do you: A: "Sure, no problem. Hey Matt, Joe said we should discuss Project Foobar, etc" B: "No. Your name is Matthew, this is basic reality. Why are you forcing me to play along with your PREFERRED NAME GAME?" I think we all know the answer to this question. How is this different from: A new coworker starts on your team named Chris. They seem to have some masculine features but they also have long hair, are wearing makeup and a dress. But you are pretty sure they were born male. You: "Hey, let's organize Chris's Welcome Lunch. Does anyone know his food preference?" Your coworker: "Actually their pronouns are she/her." Do you A: "Sure, does anyone know her food preference?" B: See B above. If you think the situations are completely different, here's a third scenario. Chris is a butch woman with short hair, not a transgender person. You: "Hey, let's organize Chris's Welcome Lunch. Does anyone know his food preference?" Your coworker: "Actually, Chris is a woman." What's the difference? Why is your opinion on gender expression, transgender "ideology", chromosomes, or anything else of the sort matter at all? This is just basic human socialization 101. Treat people like they ask you to be treated in situations where there is no extra cost to you. That's it. It requires no more difference or effort to remember than in any other social circumstance separate from pronouns. Appendix: Yes, I am aware of the extreme exceptions. I'm sure you can find me some angry tweets from trans people who overreacted to some situation or another. But let's remember the context. People are angry because the basic human decency I described above is NOT offered to them. So yes, there are misunderstandings and chips on shoulders. But we don't need to base policy or perspective of opinions based on extreme outliers on twitter.
qualudeheart 5y ago
I’ve experienced that when I went to a LGBT students event with my partner at their university, though that’s an environment where one might expect that to happen.

by soared 5y ago

Id recommend getting outside of your social circle/geo a bit more. I’ve never once experienced this in Denver, and have only ever seen gender pronouns be a thing on linkedin.

tablespoon 5y ago

>> It definitely seems as though specifying your preferred gender pronouns is no longer optional. This is required "in solidarity". Being an otherwise progressive person, I don't feel great about this and how quickly it happened. > Id recommend getting outside of your social circle/geo a bit more. I’ve never once experienced this in Denver, and have only ever seen gender pronouns be a thing on linkedin. I've started to see them in email signatures at work, but only in situations where such specification was entirely unnecessary. Though most cases have consistent enough formatting that there may be some corporate-standard signature template that has it now.

netrus 5y ago
I would love to have more pronouns in signatures. I cannot count the times I used Google picture search to figure out the gender of students from cultures I am not well educated about (Chinese, Indian, Arabic, Vietnamese ...). Many foreign students adopted a western name to mitigate such problems. Yikes!
- yodsanklai 5y ago
  Never found this to be an issue. When in doubt, simply don't use the pronoun and use their first name to refer to them. > Many foreign students adopted a western name to mitigate such problems It has more to do with pronunciation.
- Glide 5y ago
  The western name thing is all about pronunciation. It also helps when you realize all other personal information on a candidate might be redacted, except for a name. It predates the current cultural climate by decades.
deanCommie 5y ago
> in situations where such specification was entirely unnecessary Doing it in situations where such specification is entirely unnecessary is precisely how you normalize it not being weird. If the only people that had listed pronouns were ones that needed it, it would "other" them, and make pronoun preferences WEIRD and UNUSUAL. If we recognize that even before the cultural mainstream of transness, EVERYONE already had preferred pronouns (just the ones that happen to match their gender), then we can normalize it.

eweise 5y ago

My last job we were all highly encouraged by the CEO to add our preferred pronouns to our profiles. Just another reason I left.

pugz 5y ago
Us too. I found it super useful because I have lots of Chinese coworkers and I have no idea whether to use “he” or “she” based on their name. Edit: I didn’t see the last bit. Why did it factor into leaving? Were they aggressive about it or something?
- ModernMech 5y ago
  As a teacher, I face the same situation. My roster says “Christine” but the student sets their name to “Chris” in the CMS and has traditionally masculine features, dress, and haircut. Do I go with “he” or “she”? Best to get pronouns out of the way during an introduction and dissipate the awkwardness. Sometimes I wonder if people who have the biggest issue with displaying pronouns don’t meet a lot of new people, especially new trans people. Displaying pronouns makes the process so much easier and less awkward!
  - spinach 5y ago
    But why not just say if a person is a man or a woman, why does it have to be pronouns. When I see pronouns, I then assume they believe in an ideology where people can actually change sex and basic reality is denied. Where people can simply declare the reality they want, and force others to play along. Why does everyone have to play along with this ideology, aka, the pronoun game.
    - deanCommie 5y ago
      > When I see pronouns, I then assume That's your fault, not the fault of the concept of pronouns. In the thread above, teachers and people working in international companies both explained benefits to having pronouns listed that have nothing to do with gender expression. So, your assumption is flawed. Secondly, let's consider your terminology: "Basic reality"; "force others to play along"; "pronoun game". Consider this scenario: You: "Hi, are you Matthew?" Matthew: "Yes, but actually I prefer Matt, could you call me Matt?" Do you: A: "Sure, no problem. Hey Matt, Joe said we should discuss Project Foobar, etc" B: "No. Your name is Matthew, this is basic reality. Why are you forcing me to play along with your PREFERRED NAME GAME?" I think we all know the answer to this question. How is this different from: A new coworker starts on your team named Chris. They seem to have some masculine features but they also have long hair, are wearing makeup and a dress. But you are pretty sure they were born male. You: "Hey, let's organize Chris's Welcome Lunch. Does anyone know his food preference?" Your coworker: "Actually their pronouns are she/her." Do you A: "Sure, does anyone know her food preference?" B: See B above. If you think the situations are completely different, here's a third scenario. Chris is a butch woman with short hair, not a transgender person. You: "Hey, let's organize Chris's Welcome Lunch. Does anyone know his food preference?" Your coworker: "Actually, Chris is a woman." What's the difference? Why is your opinion on gender expression, transgender "ideology", chromosomes, or anything else of the sort matter at all? This is just basic human socialization 101. Treat people like they ask you to be treated in situations where there is no extra cost to you. That's it. It requires no more difference or effort to remember than in any other social circumstance separate from pronouns. Appendix: Yes, I am aware of the extreme exceptions. I'm sure you can find me some angry tweets from trans people who overreacted to some situation or another. But let's remember the context. People are angry because the basic human decency I described above is NOT offered to them. So yes, there are misunderstandings and chips on shoulders. But we don't need to base policy or perspective of opinions based on extreme outliers on twitter.

qualudeheart 5y ago

I’ve experienced that when I went to a LGBT students event with my partner at their university, though that’s an environment where one might expect that to happen.