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I would bet that flexible work hours are contributing for higher employee burnout.

by dbs 5y ago

awsthro00945 5y ago
I agree. In my experience, "flexible work hours" is often code for "everyone works weird fucking hours so instead of having a set routine, you have to be quasi-available at all times to respond to the person who decided to wait until 8pm to do the work you were waiting on". It's great for the person who needs flexibility, and shitty for everyone that depends on that person. Flexible working arrangements are great when the team is able to asynchronously work, but I have yet to see a team that really does asynchronous work right.
- dopidopHN 5y ago
  Excellent point. If the expectations is to not respond right away and not be available right away. It can be fine. I’ve seen it work. But it require discipline. In my situation the time difference were too striking to hope having synchronized interaction, and the team built on that habit. But then one day we had a major refactor in our orgs and that was gone.
- mhitza 5y ago
  > I have yet to see a team that really does asynchronous work right. I think the Linux kernel developers can be considered the biggest software team that does asynchronous work, and it works just fine. Honestly just some basic mailinglist software installation goes a long way. And an organization can still have a process in place on how to get synched when its needed (scheduled calls, impromptu emergency response situations, etc).
nickjj 5y ago
I think this is a contributor, especially with working remote where folks are spanning many time zones. A position I'm thinking about joining requires being available 9 hours between 9am-6pm EST (I live in EST) to ensure there's reasonable overlap between the west coast US and most European countries. They were really strict on these hours and at first I was against it because I thought what's the difference if I work 2 hours early one day and clock out early or decide to be unavailable for 3 hours in the afternoon (1h lunch break + the 2 hours). But the more I think about it, the more I think it's a better system for everyone in the end when everyone has strict hours. I wouldn't want to be expected to review a PR at 7pm EST because someone else decided to start a bit later one day. They have no problem for exceptions like leaving early for a doctor's appointment or picking someone up. The only rule here is you need to give a few days notice which is also reasonable because it lets your team members know you won't be around when you usually are. They don't need to know the details, only that you won't be around. They're also ok if you need to bail without notice because it's something important. Basically don't abuse the system and it's all good.
- tharkun__ 5y ago
  I don't get how that's a better system than not requiring overlaps between timezones that are essentially too far away from each other for reasonable overlap? Other than being good for the employer of course. I do agree that having "core hours" is very valuable with flexible hours. Core hours need to be less than a regular working day though and they should be negotiated by the team internally. Have a team of night owls? Core hours can be 4pm to 10pm for example. Why would you review a 7pm EST PR any earlier than the next day (which is when you'd see it) and your next day happened to start at 10am only that day? Unless you had started your day late or were working later for another reason (like wanting to take half of Friday off) and you happen to see it. Timezones suck and make things slower. Companies need to acknowledge that and not by making people work longer than they should.

I would bet that flexible work hours are contributing for higher employee burnout.

by dbs 5y ago

I would bet that flexible work hours are contributing for higher employee burnout.

I agree. In my experience, "flexible work hours" is often code for "everyone works weird fucking hours so instead of having a set routine, you have to be quasi-available at all times to respond to the person who decided to wait until 8pm to do the work you were waiting on". It's great for the person who needs flexibility, and shitty for everyone that depends on that person. Flexible working arrangements are great when the team is able to asynchronously work, but I have yet to see a team that really does asynchronous work right.

dopidopHN 5y ago
Excellent point. If the expectations is to not respond right away and not be available right away. It can be fine. I’ve seen it work. But it require discipline. In my situation the time difference were too striking to hope having synchronized interaction, and the team built on that habit. But then one day we had a major refactor in our orgs and that was gone.
mhitza 5y ago
> I have yet to see a team that really does asynchronous work right. I think the Linux kernel developers can be considered the biggest software team that does asynchronous work, and it works just fine. Honestly just some basic mailinglist software installation goes a long way. And an organization can still have a process in place on how to get synched when its needed (scheduled calls, impromptu emergency response situations, etc).

nickjj 5y ago

I think this is a contributor, especially with working remote where folks are spanning many time zones. A position I'm thinking about joining requires being available 9 hours between 9am-6pm EST (I live in EST) to ensure there's reasonable overlap between the west coast US and most European countries. They were really strict on these hours and at first I was against it because I thought what's the difference if I work 2 hours early one day and clock out early or decide to be unavailable for 3 hours in the afternoon (1h lunch break + the 2 hours). But the more I think about it, the more I think it's a better system for everyone in the end when everyone has strict hours. I wouldn't want to be expected to review a PR at 7pm EST because someone else decided to start a bit later one day. They have no problem for exceptions like leaving early for a doctor's appointment or picking someone up. The only rule here is you need to give a few days notice which is also reasonable because it lets your team members know you won't be around when you usually are. They don't need to know the details, only that you won't be around. They're also ok if you need to bail without notice because it's something important. Basically don't abuse the system and it's all good.

tharkun__ 5y ago
I don't get how that's a better system than not requiring overlaps between timezones that are essentially too far away from each other for reasonable overlap? Other than being good for the employer of course. I do agree that having "core hours" is very valuable with flexible hours. Core hours need to be less than a regular working day though and they should be negotiated by the team internally. Have a team of night owls? Core hours can be 4pm to 10pm for example. Why would you review a 7pm EST PR any earlier than the next day (which is when you'd see it) and your next day happened to start at 10am only that day? Unless you had started your day late or were working later for another reason (like wanting to take half of Friday off) and you happen to see it. Timezones suck and make things slower. Companies need to acknowledge that and not by making people work longer than they should.