5 ms·

As I always say in these threads, I would be happy to pay Microsoft for a Windows license that doesn't have Cortana, Teams, telemetry uploads, the app store, et

As I always say in these threads, I would be happy to pay Microsoft for a Windows license that doesn't have Cortana, Teams, telemetry uploads, the app store, etc. I just want to run applications that through past probably-illegal monopolistic actions, require APIs that only exist on Windows machines. Accept that you are just boring plumbing, and don't have any "value added services", and you earn my money. (Oh, and ship the damn patch for Hyper-V that adds nested virtualization on AMD processors. It's been in preview builds for like 2 years!) Computers are about the applications you run and what you make with them. Nobody wants to know the name of their OS vendor, or buy anything else from them. Sorry, Microsoft. If something is good, I'll find out about it. (Happy to pay for Github, for example!)

n8cpdx 5y ago
I'd like to see windows be part of office 365. Windows users get 'free' Windows on the desktop and Mac users can get licenses for parallels. Maybe they could set it up so that Windows is free with ads, but subscribers can turn everything off and get full control.
- bombcar 5y ago
  Office 365 E5 includes this. Or at least a Windows 10 Professional license. Not sure if you have to have Windows 10 normal first.
eric__cartman 5y ago
Windows should have a "minimal install" option were it only installs the base operating sysyem and not much else. That's why Windows XP/7 will always be the pinnacle of Windows releases in my opinion.
- derefr 5y ago
  It does, but Microsoft doesn't consider that level of minimalism to be an "end user" use-case, so it's not an option available to end users to install. Instead, in Microsoft's minds, this is a use-case exclusively of interest to embedded-device system integrators (i.e. the people building the world's ATMs, billboards, gas pumps, slot machines, ticket kiosks, etc.) So that's how they market it: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot/ Make no mistake, though, you can just download and install Windows IoT Core onto any random PC; and (mostly) arbitrary Windows apps can be installed and run on top of Windows IoT Core. The only proviso being, that IoT Core is maybe a bit too minimal for your use-case: IoT Core assumes you don't need a desktop (because you're likely remotely managing the device, and deploying a full-screen kiosk-style app that isn't meant to be broken out of.) It still has a graphical "control plane" shell sort of thing, but it's entirely built on the Metro/UWP UX, with no ability to launch programs in windowed mode. (Essentially, there's no window manager running.) I believe this means that Win32 apps that try to spawn multiple windows (e.g. old versions of Photoshop that make the palettes their own windows), won't work on IoT Core. Most modern stuff avoids that, though. I would note that this "remote-deploy and boot apps in fullscreen, with access to Win32 but not GDI, graphics only though UWP" paradigm, closely mirrors the experience of using an Xbox One in developer mode. I bet the "distro" of Windows used between IoT Core and the modern Xbox are near-identical.
  - int_19h 5y ago
    Many standard Win32 widgets, such as context menus and tooltips, are themselves top-level windows - so if Core doesn't support that at all, it would break a lot more than just Photoshop.
    - pjmlp 5y ago
      Core is for headless deployment, not for running Photoshop.
      - derefr 5y ago
        I would disagree, insofar as one of the use-cases for IoT Core (and Windows Embedded before it) is for developing kiosks that run arbitrary single apps. That could include e.g. a tablet that only runs Photoshop. But the assumption in those use-cases is that you as the system-integrator are either also the developer of the app being embedded, or at least have access to the engineers of the ISV who developed the app; and so you can get the app recompiled [and potentially slightly rewritten in the process] for the target profile (UWP) that IoT Core supports. IoT Core doesn't support just taking arbitrary Win32 GDI apps and kiosk-ifying them. ...but Windows IoT Enterprise does! IoT Enterprise is just Windows Pro LTSC but with IoT Core's virtual-appliance versioned-image deployment and management process. You can totally kiosk a "legacy" Win32 GDI app using IoT Enterprise. That's what a lot of modern billboard manufacturers and the like are still doing (until they finish redeveloping their signage apps for IoT Core), which is why you'll still sometimes see e.g. an airport terminal sign sitting around on the Windows desktop when its kiosk app failed to boot. That's an IoT Enterprise deployment. But IoT Enterprise isn't any more minimal than Pro LTSC, it's just different, so it wasn't really the point of the discussion here. If you're a home user putting Windows on your own PC, you'd want to use Pro LTSC, not IoT Enterprise. (Unless "your own PC" is your RaspPi that you're trying to set up as a smart-fridge weather widget or something. Then maybe you do want IoT Enterprise.)
zakary 5y ago
I had exactly the same issue. The solution is Windows LTSC (long term service package). It has no Cortana, teams, or Windows store, no Telemetry, and only update about once a month and it never updates automatically, only when you allow it to. It’s designed for applications where a computer has to be stable for a long time. A copy can be a pain to get a hold of because Microsoft only want to licence it to corporate clients, so it’s usually not possible for individuals to buy a licence at any price. Microsoft really don’t want regular people to have access to it. but if you look on your favourite piracy site you should see it. Then use a Windows keygen and presto it’s activated.
- imposterr 5y ago
  How can you be sure these copies of Windows haven't been tampered with?
  - sslayer 5y ago
    I honestly think you could run a cryptominer on it and wouldn't be any worse than all the other shitware MS bloats it with
  - blibble 5y ago
    you can verify the sha256sum against MS official list
    - imposterr 5y ago
      Where is this official list? A quick google search just returns forums which seem to conclude that these are no longer published by MS.
      - poplan 5y ago
        There are some dumps online like https://www.heidoc.net/php/myvsdump.php https://www.heidoc.net/php/myvsdump.php or https://sha1.rg-adguard.net/ https://sha1.rg-adguard.net/
Causality1 5y ago
Sounds like you want Windows AME.
- m3at 5y ago
  I had not heard of this project, thanks for sharing! Do you have experience using it? Is it stable in practice? How much efforts do you need for maintenance post-install compared to a normal system?
  - Causality1 5y ago
    Extremely stable and fast, although the difference in UI can take some getting used to, since the Start menu is so cut down. I'd recommend installing OpenStart to get a more traditional experience. Windows Update is stripped out entirely, so I eventually went with LTSC for the sake of drivers and such. If programs like WuMgr ever stop being able to control Windows Update I might go back to AME.
    - m3at 5y ago
      Good to know, thank you
sedivy94 5y ago
LTSB
kibblesalad 5y ago
>Accept that you are just boring plumbing, and don't have any "value added services", and you earn my money. I'd love to see numbers on how much long term projected revenue their captive audience telemetry and ad delivery platform are valued at. I wouldn't be surprised if it renders the actual OS license sales look like a drop in the bucket.
908B64B197 5y ago
Windows Server?
slumdev 5y ago
Tron script does some of these things, but I do agree that Microsoft would score a lot of points by providing a SKU without all the bloat. https://github.com/bmrf/tron https://github.com/bmrf/tron
matheusmoreira 5y ago
> I just want to run applications that through past probably-illegal monopolistic actions, require APIs that only exist on Windows machines. It's gonna be ironic if one day Wine becomes the best way to run those applications because Microsoft ruined their own platform with ads and surveillance.
- dm319 5y ago
  Well in the edge-case requirement of running several copies of Microsoft Word simultaneously, WINE has Windows beat. https://www.reddit.com/r/winehq/comments/he1pc0/went_overboard_getting_microsoft_word_to_work/ https://www.reddit.com/r/winehq/comments/he1pc0/went_overboa...
peakaboo 5y ago
You would pay them? Paying Microsoft to not put garbage in your operating system is like paying the mafia to not break your shop windows.
- AniseAbyss 5y ago
  Isn't this normal for apps? Spotify has a free version that is ad supported. Microsoft is giving away Windows. Remember that not that long ago you had to pay €$200+ for an OS.
  - InfamousRece 5y ago
    $139 for Windows Home and $199 for Windows Pro. Where I come from this would not be called giving away. Official MS pricing: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/b/windows?activetab=pivot:shopwindows10tab https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/b/windows?activetab=pi...
    - phendrenad2 5y ago
      Eh, it's the same. The price floor is just different.
    - emn13 5y ago
      Most people surely buy/bought their license with a new PC from an OEM; OEM's apparently always paid much less, e.g. 50$ (in 2009) https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/09/microsoft-oems-pay-about-50-for-each-copy-of-windows/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/09/micro... - and less if it was a cheap/low-end device: https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/microsoft-reducing-windows-10-licensing-fee/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/microsoft-reducing-w... I'm guessing they're not going to drop those fees, so whatever ad or product-placement revenue comes in is probably on top of that?
- Arisaka1 5y ago
  In some way I see it the same as buying organic food in a premium. First time I learned about people paying extra for organic I thought "but that's how people always used to eat especially if you grew up in a village".
runnerup 5y ago
Good news: You can go ahead and do that for about $270 per copy of Windows. https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-instructions-for-purchasing-a-windows-10-ltsc-license https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-inst... Someone told me this when I made a similar comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27671028 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27671028

n8cpdx 5y ago

I'd like to see windows be part of office 365. Windows users get 'free' Windows on the desktop and Mac users can get licenses for parallels. Maybe they could set it up so that Windows is free with ads, but subscribers can turn everything off and get full control.

bombcar 5y ago
Office 365 E5 includes this. Or at least a Windows 10 Professional license. Not sure if you have to have Windows 10 normal first.

eric__cartman 5y ago

Windows should have a "minimal install" option were it only installs the base operating sysyem and not much else. That's why Windows XP/7 will always be the pinnacle of Windows releases in my opinion.

derefr 5y ago
It does, but Microsoft doesn't consider that level of minimalism to be an "end user" use-case, so it's not an option available to end users to install. Instead, in Microsoft's minds, this is a use-case exclusively of interest to embedded-device system integrators (i.e. the people building the world's ATMs, billboards, gas pumps, slot machines, ticket kiosks, etc.) So that's how they market it: https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot/ https://developer.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/iot/ Make no mistake, though, you can just download and install Windows IoT Core onto any random PC; and (mostly) arbitrary Windows apps can be installed and run on top of Windows IoT Core. The only proviso being, that IoT Core is maybe a bit too minimal for your use-case: IoT Core assumes you don't need a desktop (because you're likely remotely managing the device, and deploying a full-screen kiosk-style app that isn't meant to be broken out of.) It still has a graphical "control plane" shell sort of thing, but it's entirely built on the Metro/UWP UX, with no ability to launch programs in windowed mode. (Essentially, there's no window manager running.) I believe this means that Win32 apps that try to spawn multiple windows (e.g. old versions of Photoshop that make the palettes their own windows), won't work on IoT Core. Most modern stuff avoids that, though. I would note that this "remote-deploy and boot apps in fullscreen, with access to Win32 but not GDI, graphics only though UWP" paradigm, closely mirrors the experience of using an Xbox One in developer mode. I bet the "distro" of Windows used between IoT Core and the modern Xbox are near-identical.
- int_19h 5y ago
  Many standard Win32 widgets, such as context menus and tooltips, are themselves top-level windows - so if Core doesn't support that at all, it would break a lot more than just Photoshop.
  - pjmlp 5y ago
    Core is for headless deployment, not for running Photoshop.
    - derefr 5y ago
      I would disagree, insofar as one of the use-cases for IoT Core (and Windows Embedded before it) is for developing kiosks that run arbitrary single apps. That could include e.g. a tablet that only runs Photoshop. But the assumption in those use-cases is that you as the system-integrator are either also the developer of the app being embedded, or at least have access to the engineers of the ISV who developed the app; and so you can get the app recompiled [and potentially slightly rewritten in the process] for the target profile (UWP) that IoT Core supports. IoT Core doesn't support just taking arbitrary Win32 GDI apps and kiosk-ifying them. ...but Windows IoT Enterprise does! IoT Enterprise is just Windows Pro LTSC but with IoT Core's virtual-appliance versioned-image deployment and management process. You can totally kiosk a "legacy" Win32 GDI app using IoT Enterprise. That's what a lot of modern billboard manufacturers and the like are still doing (until they finish redeveloping their signage apps for IoT Core), which is why you'll still sometimes see e.g. an airport terminal sign sitting around on the Windows desktop when its kiosk app failed to boot. That's an IoT Enterprise deployment. But IoT Enterprise isn't any more minimal than Pro LTSC, it's just different, so it wasn't really the point of the discussion here. If you're a home user putting Windows on your own PC, you'd want to use Pro LTSC, not IoT Enterprise. (Unless "your own PC" is your RaspPi that you're trying to set up as a smart-fridge weather widget or something. Then maybe you do want IoT Enterprise.)

zakary 5y ago

I had exactly the same issue. The solution is Windows LTSC (long term service package). It has no Cortana, teams, or Windows store, no Telemetry, and only update about once a month and it never updates automatically, only when you allow it to. It’s designed for applications where a computer has to be stable for a long time. A copy can be a pain to get a hold of because Microsoft only want to licence it to corporate clients, so it’s usually not possible for individuals to buy a licence at any price. Microsoft really don’t want regular people to have access to it. but if you look on your favourite piracy site you should see it. Then use a Windows keygen and presto it’s activated.

imposterr 5y ago
How can you be sure these copies of Windows haven't been tampered with?
- sslayer 5y ago
  I honestly think you could run a cryptominer on it and wouldn't be any worse than all the other shitware MS bloats it with
- blibble 5y ago
  you can verify the sha256sum against MS official list
  - imposterr 5y ago
    Where is this official list? A quick google search just returns forums which seem to conclude that these are no longer published by MS.
    - poplan 5y ago
      There are some dumps online like https://www.heidoc.net/php/myvsdump.php https://www.heidoc.net/php/myvsdump.php or https://sha1.rg-adguard.net/ https://sha1.rg-adguard.net/

Causality1 5y ago

Sounds like you want Windows AME.

m3at 5y ago
I had not heard of this project, thanks for sharing! Do you have experience using it? Is it stable in practice? How much efforts do you need for maintenance post-install compared to a normal system?
- Causality1 5y ago
  Extremely stable and fast, although the difference in UI can take some getting used to, since the Start menu is so cut down. I'd recommend installing OpenStart to get a more traditional experience. Windows Update is stripped out entirely, so I eventually went with LTSC for the sake of drivers and such. If programs like WuMgr ever stop being able to control Windows Update I might go back to AME.
  - m3at 5y ago
    Good to know, thank you

sedivy94 5y ago

LTSB

kibblesalad 5y ago

>Accept that you are just boring plumbing, and don't have any "value added services", and you earn my money. I'd love to see numbers on how much long term projected revenue their captive audience telemetry and ad delivery platform are valued at. I wouldn't be surprised if it renders the actual OS license sales look like a drop in the bucket.

908B64B197 5y ago

Windows Server?

slumdev 5y ago

Tron script does some of these things, but I do agree that Microsoft would score a lot of points by providing a SKU without all the bloat. https://github.com/bmrf/tron https://github.com/bmrf/tron

matheusmoreira 5y ago

> I just want to run applications that through past probably-illegal monopolistic actions, require APIs that only exist on Windows machines. It's gonna be ironic if one day Wine becomes the best way to run those applications because Microsoft ruined their own platform with ads and surveillance.

dm319 5y ago
Well in the edge-case requirement of running several copies of Microsoft Word simultaneously, WINE has Windows beat. https://www.reddit.com/r/winehq/comments/he1pc0/went_overboard_getting_microsoft_word_to_work/ https://www.reddit.com/r/winehq/comments/he1pc0/went_overboa...

peakaboo 5y ago

You would pay them? Paying Microsoft to not put garbage in your operating system is like paying the mafia to not break your shop windows.

AniseAbyss 5y ago
Isn't this normal for apps? Spotify has a free version that is ad supported. Microsoft is giving away Windows. Remember that not that long ago you had to pay €$200+ for an OS.
- InfamousRece 5y ago
  $139 for Windows Home and $199 for Windows Pro. Where I come from this would not be called giving away. Official MS pricing: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/b/windows?activetab=pivot:shopwindows10tab https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/store/b/windows?activetab=pi...
  - phendrenad2 5y ago
    Eh, it's the same. The price floor is just different.
  - emn13 5y ago
    Most people surely buy/bought their license with a new PC from an OEM; OEM's apparently always paid much less, e.g. 50$ (in 2009) https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/09/microsoft-oems-pay-about-50-for-each-copy-of-windows/ https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2009/09/micro... - and less if it was a cheap/low-end device: https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/microsoft-reducing-windows-10-licensing-fee/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/microsoft-reducing-w... I'm guessing they're not going to drop those fees, so whatever ad or product-placement revenue comes in is probably on top of that?
Arisaka1 5y ago
In some way I see it the same as buying organic food in a premium. First time I learned about people paying extra for organic I thought "but that's how people always used to eat especially if you grew up in a village".

runnerup 5y ago

Good news: You can go ahead and do that for about $270 per copy of Windows. https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-instructions-for-purchasing-a-windows-10-ltsc-license https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2167558-explicit-inst... Someone told me this when I made a similar comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27671028 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27671028