5 ms·

> Piracy is potentially good for the overall market (free innovation, etc) I haven’t seen any innovation done by software pirates other than what’s necessary t

by zepto 5y ago

> Piracy is potentially good for the overall market (free innovation, etc) I haven’t seen any innovation done by software pirates other than what’s necessary to circumvent protections.

fishtacos 5y ago
Innovation doesn't have to be done by the software pirates, merely nudge it along: 1. Circumventing anti software piracy measures and learning that performance is gained instead of lost when the DRM is bypassed. -1 for DRM, net gain for users. 2. Pushing for new features alongside the updated DRM, a net gain for users. 3. Finding holes in the initial DRM and plugging them. A net gain for developers/publishers. It's a win/win any way one looks at it.
- zepto 5y ago
  As I said, the only innovation I am aware of that piracy has produced is circumvention. You seem to be confirming that.
  - fishtacos 5y ago
    If that was the conclusion you drew, I suggest you read what I wrote again.
AlotOfReading 5y ago
I think the typical argument is that piracy makes things accessible to everyone, and the market as a whole benefits from that greater audience. Think of how many photographers got started with a pirated copy of Photoshop or reverse engineers with Ida.
- zepto 5y ago
  Sure, which is only true if the maker actually gains from the greater market share indirectly. This is almost certainly only going to be true in a tiny number of cases - e.g. photoshop, where commercial users generally don’t use pirate copies, and do get sued if they are found to.
10000truths 5y ago
Sometimes that circumvention itself has the side effect of QoL improvements. Like that Resident Evil 8 crack that significantly reduced framerate stuttering when the DRM calls were patched out.
- zepto 5y ago
  Just one bug fix that multiple people are mentioning is hardly evidence of innovation.
robocat 5y ago
Pirate Party (various countries), Napster, exe trojans, BitTorrent, game mods, after 1 minute of thought. Are you trolling? You get lots of downvotes, especially when you respond to others that answer your own comments.
- zepto 5y ago
  > Pirate Party (various countries), Napster, exe trojans, BitTorrent, game mods, after 1 minute of thought. Ok - so innovation in piracy itself, not innovation in anything else. > You get lots of downvotes, especially when you respond to others that answer your own comments.
  - robocat 5y ago
    > not innovation in anything else You have much absolute opinion, and little supporting fact. Try reading: https://www.zdnet.com/article/bittorrent-we-represent-innovation-not-piracy/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/bittorrent-we-represent-innova... https://www.google.com/search?q=%22innovation%22+%22pirate+party%22d https://www.google.com/search?q=%22innovation%22+%22pirate+p... which represents political innovation that is not about supporting piracy, but is about modifying the legal encumbrances (which often prevent benefits to society accruing from the products of that society.) https://www.google.com/search?q=%22innovation%22+%22napster%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22innovation%22+%22napster%... https://www.google.com/search?q=%22game+mod%22+user-innovation https://www.google.com/search?q=%22game+mod%22+user-innovati... - much of this is innovation is not piracy but just removing locks so that you can modify games one has paid for. Piracy enables the innovation in games, but the user innovation in gameplay is not actually about piracy.
    - zepto 5y ago
      BitTorrent is innovative, but isn’t a result of piracy. The piece you linked actually says that.
matheusmoreira 5y ago
Are you kidding? Certain pirate sites have been compared to the library of Alexandria due to their massive collections and organization. No copyright holder ever managed to even come close, some streaming services can't even manage to list episodes in order. Pirates often care more about quality than the companies that release the product they're pirating. You'll see pirates using hacked PS3s to rip SACDs for the best possible audio. You'll see pirates sourcing multiple Blu-Rays in order to create the perfect encode. These people work their butts off. It's honestly embarrassing that billion dollar companies can't compete.
- zepto 5y ago
  Ok, so no innovation other than the piracy itself.
  - matheusmoreira 5y ago
    You don't consider better software, better service, better results, better everything to be innovation? I wish these billion dollar corporations were as innovative as pirates. They pretty much invented digital content distribution years if not decades before the legitimate industry managed to understand what was going on. They reached worldwide audiences at mere fractions of the costs associated with legitimate services.
    - zepto 5y ago
      > You don't consider better software, better service, better results, better everything to be innovation? That’s just not accurate. I agree that for a while it was true in the days of Napster, audio galaxy etc, but it isn’t anymore. But you are missing my point. Other than in improving ways to do piracy itself, piracy doesn’t lead to innovation.
      - matheusmoreira 5y ago
        My point is piracy itself is the biggest innovation of the 21st century. We're actually going backwards because of these copyright holders. Things would be so much better if not for them. > I agree that for a while it was true in the days of Napster, audio galaxy etc, but it isn’t anymore. You gotta be kidding me. Pirate sites offer more content at much higher quality. Netflix streams "high definition" shows so thoroughly compressed even black frames have artifacts. My satellite TV streams content with so much compression it gives me motion sickness. The main difference is piracy doesn't happen out in the open anymore. You need to be invited.

by zepto 5y ago

> Piracy is potentially good for the overall market (free innovation, etc) I haven’t seen any innovation done by software pirates other than what’s necessary to circumvent protections.

fishtacos 5y ago

Innovation doesn't have to be done by the software pirates, merely nudge it along: 1. Circumventing anti software piracy measures and learning that performance is gained instead of lost when the DRM is bypassed. -1 for DRM, net gain for users. 2. Pushing for new features alongside the updated DRM, a net gain for users. 3. Finding holes in the initial DRM and plugging them. A net gain for developers/publishers. It's a win/win any way one looks at it.

zepto 5y ago
As I said, the only innovation I am aware of that piracy has produced is circumvention. You seem to be confirming that.
- fishtacos 5y ago
  If that was the conclusion you drew, I suggest you read what I wrote again.

AlotOfReading 5y ago

I think the typical argument is that piracy makes things accessible to everyone, and the market as a whole benefits from that greater audience. Think of how many photographers got started with a pirated copy of Photoshop or reverse engineers with Ida.

zepto 5y ago
Sure, which is only true if the maker actually gains from the greater market share indirectly. This is almost certainly only going to be true in a tiny number of cases - e.g. photoshop, where commercial users generally don’t use pirate copies, and do get sued if they are found to.

10000truths 5y ago

Sometimes that circumvention itself has the side effect of QoL improvements. Like that Resident Evil 8 crack that significantly reduced framerate stuttering when the DRM calls were patched out.

zepto 5y ago
Just one bug fix that multiple people are mentioning is hardly evidence of innovation.

robocat 5y ago

Pirate Party (various countries), Napster, exe trojans, BitTorrent, game mods, after 1 minute of thought. Are you trolling? You get lots of downvotes, especially when you respond to others that answer your own comments.

zepto 5y ago
> Pirate Party (various countries), Napster, exe trojans, BitTorrent, game mods, after 1 minute of thought. Ok - so innovation in piracy itself, not innovation in anything else. > You get lots of downvotes, especially when you respond to others that answer your own comments.
- robocat 5y ago
  > not innovation in anything else You have much absolute opinion, and little supporting fact. Try reading: https://www.zdnet.com/article/bittorrent-we-represent-innovation-not-piracy/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/bittorrent-we-represent-innova... https://www.google.com/search?q=%22innovation%22+%22pirate+party%22d https://www.google.com/search?q=%22innovation%22+%22pirate+p... which represents political innovation that is not about supporting piracy, but is about modifying the legal encumbrances (which often prevent benefits to society accruing from the products of that society.) https://www.google.com/search?q=%22innovation%22+%22napster%22 https://www.google.com/search?q=%22innovation%22+%22napster%... https://www.google.com/search?q=%22game+mod%22+user-innovation https://www.google.com/search?q=%22game+mod%22+user-innovati... - much of this is innovation is not piracy but just removing locks so that you can modify games one has paid for. Piracy enables the innovation in games, but the user innovation in gameplay is not actually about piracy.
  - zepto 5y ago
    BitTorrent is innovative, but isn’t a result of piracy. The piece you linked actually says that.

matheusmoreira 5y ago

Are you kidding? Certain pirate sites have been compared to the library of Alexandria due to their massive collections and organization. No copyright holder ever managed to even come close, some streaming services can't even manage to list episodes in order. Pirates often care more about quality than the companies that release the product they're pirating. You'll see pirates using hacked PS3s to rip SACDs for the best possible audio. You'll see pirates sourcing multiple Blu-Rays in order to create the perfect encode. These people work their butts off. It's honestly embarrassing that billion dollar companies can't compete.

zepto 5y ago
Ok, so no innovation other than the piracy itself.
- matheusmoreira 5y ago
  You don't consider better software, better service, better results, better everything to be innovation? I wish these billion dollar corporations were as innovative as pirates. They pretty much invented digital content distribution years if not decades before the legitimate industry managed to understand what was going on. They reached worldwide audiences at mere fractions of the costs associated with legitimate services.
  - zepto 5y ago
    > You don't consider better software, better service, better results, better everything to be innovation? That’s just not accurate. I agree that for a while it was true in the days of Napster, audio galaxy etc, but it isn’t anymore. But you are missing my point. Other than in improving ways to do piracy itself, piracy doesn’t lead to innovation.
    - matheusmoreira 5y ago
      My point is piracy itself is the biggest innovation of the 21st century. We're actually going backwards because of these copyright holders. Things would be so much better if not for them. > I agree that for a while it was true in the days of Napster, audio galaxy etc, but it isn’t anymore. You gotta be kidding me. Pirate sites offer more content at much higher quality. Netflix streams "high definition" shows so thoroughly compressed even black frames have artifacts. My satellite TV streams content with so much compression it gives me motion sickness. The main difference is piracy doesn't happen out in the open anymore. You need to be invited.