5 ms·

This is truly never going to end until people stop obeying. They will always find new "variants of interest." These people have no interest to end this, they d

This is truly never going to end until people stop obeying. They will always find new "variants of interest." These people have no interest to end this, they don't experience the same lockdowns or quarantines the rest of us do. I understand many here are pro-vaccine, but what's life going to be if we need to shut down with every variant, get a new shot in 90 days, have freedom for a bit (days? weeks?) because another variant comes along and we play this game all over again? If we always "trust our leaders" -- whether political or scientific -- this is going to be the game played. Is this what people want or expect?

bsaul 5y ago
i'm on the same boat. However i think we both underestimate how terrified people are of this virus. When people are this scared, you can basically make them do whatever you want.
- bingohbangoh 5y ago
  I don't know a soul who is terrified of this virus anymore. Seriously, nobody. I'm sure they exist, I'm told they exist. Many were at first. Today? nobody I know personally is scared of the virus. Now I'm sure many on HN will mention somebody they know whose scared of the virus or perhaps they themselves are. I get this, I'm not downplaying anybody's personal experience. But there is always the exception that proves the rule. Here in NYC, amongst my wide circle of friends and acquaintances, nobody cares about COVID-19 anymore. They are over it.
  - hackingforfun 5y ago
    I'm still taking the risk of COVID-19 seriously, and it's the same with pretty much everyone that I know. The US is not out of this pandemic yet. In some ways I think this is the time to take it more seriously than ever before, considering the transmissibility of the delta variant, and who knows what will happen with these other variants. People are still dying. It is still a deadly virus. I get that people have pandemic fatigue, but I just don't think that this is the right time to let your guard down.
    - masterof0 5y ago
      I think that is great, my problem comes with people trying to enforce their life of isolation onto others.
    - eli_gottlieb 5y ago
      > In some ways I think this is the time to take it more seriously than ever before No. Get vaccinated and move on.
  - seanicus 5y ago
    I myself and quite a few other parents of 0-2 are freaked out still, despite the statistical evidence. Seeing one pic of an intubated baby is some real heavy shit for us. But vaccines for 0+ are on the way, possibly as early as EOY. At that point, with vaccines available for everyone, I see it going the way OP describes. I have a lot of single friends who mask up for their own health and other's (we're around the age when our grandparents are getting quite frail) but otherwise are pretty much back to normal. I think things are going this way whether or not our leaders or Smartest Guys in the Room like it or not. Masking might stay; the way it's used in Asia - often one wears a mask only if they themselves are feeling cold symptoms. I'd love to see that continued here; nothing worse than some jackamo coughing and sneezing next to you for a full subway ride.
  - masterof0 5y ago
    Same even in Seattle, most people are not wearing masks on the streets anymore, everyone is tired, the Media will keep coming up with all the variants they want, until they realize people are not tuning in anymore. At least here, most people are vaccinated [1], regardless what you think about the vaccine, I feel like people will take the risk, and go outside, hang out with friends, walk their dogs, etc... I always felt like, if you are immunocompromised, you should take extra precautions, but pretending other people will change their life just for you, is extremely ridiculous. [1] https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccination.aspx https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccinatio...
    - hackingforfun 5y ago
      > the Media will keep coming up with all the variants they want, until they realize people are not tuning in anymore. The virus is changing and the changes are being tracked, and then reported by the media. Ignoring that there are variants doesn't make them go away. This was a deadly virus to start with, and so far it seems that some of the variants are even worse. What good does it do to ignore that? My concern is with the large portions of unvaccinated Americans. If there was a higher vaccination rate nationally, I would be less concerned.
      - masterof0 5y ago
        Ignoring it doesn't do any good indeed, fearmongering and using a pandemic to hustle views, doesn't do any good either. People took the shot, what else do you want them to do? To stop living their lives indefinitely? If the virus mutates to the point people drop dead in the streets, then people will find a way to protect themselves, and get the shot. Some people just don't see themselves in danger(not me, I got mine in April), so is their call to get it or not.
        hackingforfun 5y ago
        > Ignoring it doesn't do any good indeed, fearmongering and using a pandemic to hustle views, doesn't do any good either. I think that's happening on both sides of the political spectrum. Politicians and political parties will take whatever is going on in the world to push their agenda (and the news outlets follow along). > People took the shot, what else do you want them to do? To stop living their lives indefinitely? I don't think people should stop living their lives. I'd just like them to be aware of what's going on and take it seriously. I see some parts of America not wanting to wear a mask or get vaccinated, however, they definitely want their spot in the ICU if they got a serious COVID case. I think that they should consider that some of the newer variants may be more dangerous, and maybe revisiting the idea of getting the shot could be a good idea, that is all.
- blacktriangle 5y ago
  Solution to the pandemic: turn off your TV.
only_as_i_fall 5y ago
Unfortunately I don't think pretending that covid doesn't exist is going to allow society to function as it used to.
- glanard_frugner 5y ago
  fortunately we have this thing called an “immune system”
  - itsokimbatman 5y ago
    Until you get infected with a novel virus and your immune system freaks the fuck out trying respond to it and you wind up dying from a cytokine storm.
    - mrkramer 5y ago
      So you think mRNA vaccine is more effective than millions of years experienced and evolved immune system? I would like so but I'm afraid that's not the case.
      - gdavisson 5y ago
        The vaccines (of all types) aren't somehow an alternate to our immune systems, they're a way to boost our immune systems' response. And yes, they do make the immune system significantly more effective in responding to COVID infection. Go read this: https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-...
        mrkramer 5y ago
        >The vaccines (of all types) aren't somehow an alternate to our immune systems, they're a way to boost our immune systems' response. And yes, they do make the immune system significantly more effective in responding to COVID infection. Vitamin D and Vitamin B are also a way to boost our immune system. Why should I get vaccinated if I'm young and healthy and can take Vitamin D and Vitamin B. How should I know if my immune system is strong enough to respond and heal from COVID and how should I know what are long term side effects of mRNA vaccine?
jasonlaramburu 5y ago
Is there a reason that you and many others default to the assumption that our leaders must be lying to us about covid? Not accusing, just curious why. Is it that hard to believe that there actually is a novel virus circulating which is quite deadly to some people, and perceived by many to be a legitimate risk? Likewise, it is that hard to accept that currently no-one really knows how to 'stop' it? Is inaction, denial and protest really the best solution to a challenge like this?
- bsksi 5y ago
  Is taking our freedoms sine die the best solution, though?
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    "But it's temporary" "just trust us"
  - jasonlaramburu 5y ago
    I don't know, but it's likely that a knee-jerk reaction against any and all intervention-- which is seemingly where things are in much of the US-- is not an intelligent or informed strategy. Many societal problems are improved by 'taking our freedoms.' We enforce speed limits because fatalities are much more likely at speeds above 65 MPH, and many people speed or drive recklessly when they are running late. I hope we can trend towards finding some 'happy medium' between burdensome interventions with limited impact and just letting covid 'rip' through vulnerable populations.
  - only_as_i_fall 5y ago
    If the only solution you have is a bad one than it is the best solution by default.
- glanard_frugner 5y ago
  it doesn’t even have to be a conspiracy. maybe our leaders are just really dumb and making dumb decisions, is that really so implausible? many of them are also older and in higher risk groups, could that factor into their decisions?
ericb 5y ago
> They will always find new "variants of interest." Right, they've found variants. It seems like you're implying that they are "chicken little" and the variants are some sort of "ploy." Except that "these people" identified variants that were many times more contagious, and predictably those variants went on to cause the exact problem you'd predict, large sudden spikes in cases, and waves of hospitalizations and deaths all at once. Don't blame the messenger. In terms of interest to end this, I'd say the anti-mask, anti vaccine folks are the ones with no interest to end this. It's a bad plan to let covid brew strain after strain in unprotected hosts and just see what happens.
908B64B197 5y ago
Just look at Australia right now...
cmrdporcupine 5y ago
Who is "they" and "these people"? This is a preposterously cartoonish way to characterize what is in fact a very complicated world full of billions of people all acting with very individual motivations, all trying to sort things out in what is actually a pretty frustrating situation. I can assure you, there is no "they". And, no I'm not "obeying" -- I've almost never done that in my life -- I'm behaving rationally in the self-interest of myself and my loved ones and the society I live in.
- itsokimbatman 5y ago
  Don’t you know that caring about other human beings means you’re just a stupid sheeple who does what they’re told? The media and the elites just want to control your mind man… just take you a big ol bong rip of covid infected air and set your mind free!
- bingohbangoh 5y ago
  Thanks for the condescending remark. "they" = governments and corporate media. Obama throws a party and nobody is wearing masks. The Mayor of Washington DC has a wedding and gives herself an exception for all the included rules. Bill Gates, etc. don't ever need to quarantine when traveling. If you think Bill Gates isn't traveling much, I can assure you that other media figures such as Nicole Kidman are. [0] [0] https://news.yahoo.com/hong-kong-quarantine-exemption-nicole-102055769.html?_guc_consent_skip=1629457132 https://news.yahoo.com/hong-kong-quarantine-exemption-nicole...
  - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
    Classic.. Effectively calling everyone else sheep and insulting their intelligence by accusing them of "obeying" some nameless cabal. Then turn around and claim to be condescended to. Doctors and epedemiologists are not Obama or Bill Gates or Nicole Kidman. I've never liked or respected any of those people in my life, and I'm not sure why you think they are inspiring "obedience." That's not where public health directives have been coming from. Over the last year, hundreds of communities around the world have enacted public health measures based on the imperfect but mostly best information known at the time that those decisions were made. "They" weren't listening to Obama, or the Mayor of Washington. Most of the world doesn't even live in the United States. It's only really in the US where this has been played as some sort of "right" / "left" partisan divide, too. My points still stand. Most of us have been acting in rational self-interest, not out of "obedience." You're the one being condescending.

bsaul 5y ago

i'm on the same boat. However i think we both underestimate how terrified people are of this virus. When people are this scared, you can basically make them do whatever you want.

bingohbangoh 5y ago
I don't know a soul who is terrified of this virus anymore. Seriously, nobody. I'm sure they exist, I'm told they exist. Many were at first. Today? nobody I know personally is scared of the virus. Now I'm sure many on HN will mention somebody they know whose scared of the virus or perhaps they themselves are. I get this, I'm not downplaying anybody's personal experience. But there is always the exception that proves the rule. Here in NYC, amongst my wide circle of friends and acquaintances, nobody cares about COVID-19 anymore. They are over it.
- hackingforfun 5y ago
  I'm still taking the risk of COVID-19 seriously, and it's the same with pretty much everyone that I know. The US is not out of this pandemic yet. In some ways I think this is the time to take it more seriously than ever before, considering the transmissibility of the delta variant, and who knows what will happen with these other variants. People are still dying. It is still a deadly virus. I get that people have pandemic fatigue, but I just don't think that this is the right time to let your guard down.
  - masterof0 5y ago
    I think that is great, my problem comes with people trying to enforce their life of isolation onto others.
  - eli_gottlieb 5y ago
    > In some ways I think this is the time to take it more seriously than ever before No. Get vaccinated and move on.
- seanicus 5y ago
  I myself and quite a few other parents of 0-2 are freaked out still, despite the statistical evidence. Seeing one pic of an intubated baby is some real heavy shit for us. But vaccines for 0+ are on the way, possibly as early as EOY. At that point, with vaccines available for everyone, I see it going the way OP describes. I have a lot of single friends who mask up for their own health and other's (we're around the age when our grandparents are getting quite frail) but otherwise are pretty much back to normal. I think things are going this way whether or not our leaders or Smartest Guys in the Room like it or not. Masking might stay; the way it's used in Asia - often one wears a mask only if they themselves are feeling cold symptoms. I'd love to see that continued here; nothing worse than some jackamo coughing and sneezing next to you for a full subway ride.
- masterof0 5y ago
  Same even in Seattle, most people are not wearing masks on the streets anymore, everyone is tired, the Media will keep coming up with all the variants they want, until they realize people are not tuning in anymore. At least here, most people are vaccinated [1], regardless what you think about the vaccine, I feel like people will take the risk, and go outside, hang out with friends, walk their dogs, etc... I always felt like, if you are immunocompromised, you should take extra precautions, but pretending other people will change their life just for you, is extremely ridiculous. [1] https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccination.aspx https://kingcounty.gov/depts/health/covid-19/data/vaccinatio...
  - hackingforfun 5y ago
    > the Media will keep coming up with all the variants they want, until they realize people are not tuning in anymore. The virus is changing and the changes are being tracked, and then reported by the media. Ignoring that there are variants doesn't make them go away. This was a deadly virus to start with, and so far it seems that some of the variants are even worse. What good does it do to ignore that? My concern is with the large portions of unvaccinated Americans. If there was a higher vaccination rate nationally, I would be less concerned.
    - masterof0 5y ago
      Ignoring it doesn't do any good indeed, fearmongering and using a pandemic to hustle views, doesn't do any good either. People took the shot, what else do you want them to do? To stop living their lives indefinitely? If the virus mutates to the point people drop dead in the streets, then people will find a way to protect themselves, and get the shot. Some people just don't see themselves in danger(not me, I got mine in April), so is their call to get it or not.
      - hackingforfun 5y ago
        > Ignoring it doesn't do any good indeed, fearmongering and using a pandemic to hustle views, doesn't do any good either. I think that's happening on both sides of the political spectrum. Politicians and political parties will take whatever is going on in the world to push their agenda (and the news outlets follow along). > People took the shot, what else do you want them to do? To stop living their lives indefinitely? I don't think people should stop living their lives. I'd just like them to be aware of what's going on and take it seriously. I see some parts of America not wanting to wear a mask or get vaccinated, however, they definitely want their spot in the ICU if they got a serious COVID case. I think that they should consider that some of the newer variants may be more dangerous, and maybe revisiting the idea of getting the shot could be a good idea, that is all.
blacktriangle 5y ago
Solution to the pandemic: turn off your TV.

only_as_i_fall 5y ago

Unfortunately I don't think pretending that covid doesn't exist is going to allow society to function as it used to.

glanard_frugner 5y ago
fortunately we have this thing called an “immune system”
- itsokimbatman 5y ago
  Until you get infected with a novel virus and your immune system freaks the fuck out trying respond to it and you wind up dying from a cytokine storm.
  - mrkramer 5y ago
    So you think mRNA vaccine is more effective than millions of years experienced and evolved immune system? I would like so but I'm afraid that's not the case.
    - gdavisson 5y ago
      The vaccines (of all types) aren't somehow an alternate to our immune systems, they're a way to boost our immune systems' response. And yes, they do make the immune system significantly more effective in responding to COVID infection. Go read this: https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-...
      - mrkramer 5y ago
        >The vaccines (of all types) aren't somehow an alternate to our immune systems, they're a way to boost our immune systems' response. And yes, they do make the immune system significantly more effective in responding to COVID infection. Vitamin D and Vitamin B are also a way to boost our immune system. Why should I get vaccinated if I'm young and healthy and can take Vitamin D and Vitamin B. How should I know if my immune system is strong enough to respond and heal from COVID and how should I know what are long term side effects of mRNA vaccine?

jasonlaramburu 5y ago

Is there a reason that you and many others default to the assumption that our leaders must be lying to us about covid? Not accusing, just curious why. Is it that hard to believe that there actually is a novel virus circulating which is quite deadly to some people, and perceived by many to be a legitimate risk? Likewise, it is that hard to accept that currently no-one really knows how to 'stop' it? Is inaction, denial and protest really the best solution to a challenge like this?

bsksi 5y ago
Is taking our freedoms sine die the best solution, though?
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  "But it's temporary" "just trust us"
- jasonlaramburu 5y ago
  I don't know, but it's likely that a knee-jerk reaction against any and all intervention-- which is seemingly where things are in much of the US-- is not an intelligent or informed strategy. Many societal problems are improved by 'taking our freedoms.' We enforce speed limits because fatalities are much more likely at speeds above 65 MPH, and many people speed or drive recklessly when they are running late. I hope we can trend towards finding some 'happy medium' between burdensome interventions with limited impact and just letting covid 'rip' through vulnerable populations.
- only_as_i_fall 5y ago
  If the only solution you have is a bad one than it is the best solution by default.
glanard_frugner 5y ago
it doesn’t even have to be a conspiracy. maybe our leaders are just really dumb and making dumb decisions, is that really so implausible? many of them are also older and in higher risk groups, could that factor into their decisions?

ericb 5y ago

> They will always find new "variants of interest." Right, they've found variants. It seems like you're implying that they are "chicken little" and the variants are some sort of "ploy." Except that "these people" identified variants that were many times more contagious, and predictably those variants went on to cause the exact problem you'd predict, large sudden spikes in cases, and waves of hospitalizations and deaths all at once. Don't blame the messenger. In terms of interest to end this, I'd say the anti-mask, anti vaccine folks are the ones with no interest to end this. It's a bad plan to let covid brew strain after strain in unprotected hosts and just see what happens.

908B64B197 5y ago

Just look at Australia right now...

cmrdporcupine 5y ago

Who is "they" and "these people"? This is a preposterously cartoonish way to characterize what is in fact a very complicated world full of billions of people all acting with very individual motivations, all trying to sort things out in what is actually a pretty frustrating situation. I can assure you, there is no "they". And, no I'm not "obeying" -- I've almost never done that in my life -- I'm behaving rationally in the self-interest of myself and my loved ones and the society I live in.

itsokimbatman 5y ago
Don’t you know that caring about other human beings means you’re just a stupid sheeple who does what they’re told? The media and the elites just want to control your mind man… just take you a big ol bong rip of covid infected air and set your mind free!
bingohbangoh 5y ago
Thanks for the condescending remark. "they" = governments and corporate media. Obama throws a party and nobody is wearing masks. The Mayor of Washington DC has a wedding and gives herself an exception for all the included rules. Bill Gates, etc. don't ever need to quarantine when traveling. If you think Bill Gates isn't traveling much, I can assure you that other media figures such as Nicole Kidman are. [0] [0] https://news.yahoo.com/hong-kong-quarantine-exemption-nicole-102055769.html?_guc_consent_skip=1629457132 https://news.yahoo.com/hong-kong-quarantine-exemption-nicole...
- cmrdporcupine 5y ago
  Classic.. Effectively calling everyone else sheep and insulting their intelligence by accusing them of "obeying" some nameless cabal. Then turn around and claim to be condescended to. Doctors and epedemiologists are not Obama or Bill Gates or Nicole Kidman. I've never liked or respected any of those people in my life, and I'm not sure why you think they are inspiring "obedience." That's not where public health directives have been coming from. Over the last year, hundreds of communities around the world have enacted public health measures based on the imperfect but mostly best information known at the time that those decisions were made. "They" weren't listening to Obama, or the Mayor of Washington. Most of the world doesn't even live in the United States. It's only really in the US where this has been played as some sort of "right" / "left" partisan divide, too. My points still stand. Most of us have been acting in rational self-interest, not out of "obedience." You're the one being condescending.