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> Apple is absolutely and completely compromised by an authoritarian regime I don't understand this, they can just be legally compelled.

cmsj 5y ago
And they already are, Apple (and indeed all companies) have to follow all sorts of rules in all sorts of countries. Some of those rules are fairly harmless, some of them are about radio power levels, some of them are "don't show the Taiwanese flag in China".
- mlac 5y ago
  And I also understand the concerns with this (and the potential downsides of the technology). But a motivated bad actor has a lot easier time just putting an image of the Taiwanese flag or propaganda on someone's phone than trying to make it a hash collision that triggers... If an attacker is really after someone, I would expect them to put the actual material on that person's phone... ... It's like trying to frame someone for drugs in their car and going through the hassle of synthesizing a chemical that triggers drug dogs to react, but it isn't actually the drug. Wouldn't they just... buy drugs and stick them in the car?
  - zzo38computer 5y ago
    > Wouldn't they just... buy drugs and stick them in the car? Maybe they want to create too many false positives deliberately, or maybe they do it just because they want to see if and how synthesizing such a chemical can be done. When putting pictures on someone's phone or computer, there are ways to add false positives as well as maybe doing false negatives sometimes (e.g. by encrypting the picture or using an uncommon file format so that it must be converted, or using complicated HTML/JS/CSS to render it instead of just a picture file). Also, if someone has the picture or drug or whatever to find if it is what they are, can you accuse them (maybe they are the police) of liking pictures and drugs, too?
sweetheart 5y ago
Yeah sorry, I was a little vague. I consider that willingness to comply as already having been compromised. And I think, to be fair, if companies like Apple are ever in the position of using technologies like this to track individual dissidents of an authoritarian regime, we are already royally screwed. But, to be clear, you make a legitimate point.

cmsj 5y ago

And they already are, Apple (and indeed all companies) have to follow all sorts of rules in all sorts of countries. Some of those rules are fairly harmless, some of them are about radio power levels, some of them are "don't show the Taiwanese flag in China".

mlac 5y ago
And I also understand the concerns with this (and the potential downsides of the technology). But a motivated bad actor has a lot easier time just putting an image of the Taiwanese flag or propaganda on someone's phone than trying to make it a hash collision that triggers... If an attacker is really after someone, I would expect them to put the actual material on that person's phone... ... It's like trying to frame someone for drugs in their car and going through the hassle of synthesizing a chemical that triggers drug dogs to react, but it isn't actually the drug. Wouldn't they just... buy drugs and stick them in the car?
- zzo38computer 5y ago
  > Wouldn't they just... buy drugs and stick them in the car? Maybe they want to create too many false positives deliberately, or maybe they do it just because they want to see if and how synthesizing such a chemical can be done. When putting pictures on someone's phone or computer, there are ways to add false positives as well as maybe doing false negatives sometimes (e.g. by encrypting the picture or using an uncommon file format so that it must be converted, or using complicated HTML/JS/CSS to render it instead of just a picture file). Also, if someone has the picture or drug or whatever to find if it is what they are, can you accuse them (maybe they are the police) of liking pictures and drugs, too?

sweetheart 5y ago

Yeah sorry, I was a little vague. I consider that willingness to comply as already having been compromised. And I think, to be fair, if companies like Apple are ever in the position of using technologies like this to track individual dissidents of an authoritarian regime, we are already royally screwed. But, to be clear, you make a legitimate point.