5 ms·

If you can’t get promoted internally, try getting promoted externally :)

by yaacov 5y ago

xhkkffbf 5y ago
Believe it or not, it can be easier. Often you're seen as a certain type or level in your current job. They can't imagine you doing a different one. Plus, if they promote you, they just have to fill a lower position. A new company doesn't have any of these biases. A friend in night school said he fully expected to have to move to a new company to get promoted. His current boss didn't see him as someone with a masters-level intellect. Of course it's not always this way. Etc. Etc.
- amatecha 5y ago
  Yeah, as far as I've observed, this is one of the key reasons for consistent short (1-2yr) durations working at companies in the tech industry. You get a raise by getting hired at a new company. Personally for me, each time taking a job at a new employer has resulted in far greater compensation increases than if I had stayed at the same place and waited for a bonus/raise.
- macksd 5y ago
  There's the perception, yeah. I've also been told that I was so productive in my current role, they saw it as a loss to move me to my target role. Of course, they lost me entirely... There's a place for that: just because someone's a good engineer doesn't make them a good leader or manager, for instance. But such stiff attitudes really hurt an org, IMO.
- nzmsv 5y ago
  And even if you manage to convince your manager to consider you for the promotion/transfer often they'll ask you to start doing the new job on the side for a bit to prove yourself. Now, how good are you going to be at something new that you are doing part time with nobody taking you seriously and supporting you? It's much easier to get the title first and grow into the job afterwards.
behringer 5y ago
Of course. I'm not going to spend all that time updating my resume and going through all the interview hurdles not to get better paycheck. I'm going to keep applying until I've accomplished getting that better job I'm ready for.
plutonorm 5y ago
This is very very hard to do if you want to go from software engineer to manager. Almost impossible - I have tried sending out hundreds of resumes over periods of years. You need to be promoted internally - but that is impossible unless you know someone. The internal job postings are a sham. I absolutely HATE software development but have been stuck in this role for 15 years and 5 years since I genuinely started loathing it. But there is no escape unless I want to go work in Tescos. I've not seen a promotion into management in my 15 years in the industry across 7 different companies. For all intents and purposes it does not happen and if you go into software, you aren't getting out.
- pedrosorio 5y ago
  Is this a UK thing? I think I’ve read this before on HN, “getting promoted from software engineer to manager is hard”. It seems to be a cultural thing. In the US, the manager is not seen as “superior” necessarily and many people actively do not want to be promoted (and a bunch of kids pouring into the field every year) so getting a management position is not particularly hard, even if you’re under 30.
  - gambiting 5y ago
    I'm in the UK and at you wouldn't have any issue where I work(big AAA games publisher) - very very very few people want to be managers, so if someone expressed interest in managing they'd be given all training and support to make that happen, probably would get them promoted within a year or less. In fact I'd say that with some seniority under your belt you have to start actively avoiding management roles if you don't want them.
    - plutonorm 5y ago
      I don't believe it - have you seen it happen? If someone actually tries to follow that path, they get managed out rather than promoted, I bet you.
      - gambiting 5y ago
maerF0x0 5y ago
As someone who has never been promoted internally, and has been promoted externally on about half my new roles , I can tell you that taking a job elsewhere is the easier path. I wonder if anyone with success getting promoted internally can chime in on what are some good tactics/resources?
- n4kana 5y ago
  This may not be helpful in the context of Fortune 500 companies, but here it goes. I started at my current small company as a designer in 2011 with minimal formal training and a couple of years of self-taught experience. In the past ten years, I’ve been proposed to Sr. Designer, Consultant, and now Sr. Consultant. Moving from $10/hr to $95k/year in the process. The line of work is AV consulting and programming for commercial architecture. Let me contrast this with my job experience immediately preceding this, circa 2007 to 2011. I worked as an IT Manager at a University Law School. I started as a student help desk and eventually managed the AV systems in the classrooms. I couldn’t get promoted because it was part of a sprawling organization with super rigid job roles. I’d get in trouble for going above and beyond my job role. I wanted better pay at one point, so I applied for the tiniest move-up at a different school on campus and made it through a bunch of interviews until I met with the CIO of that school. She figuratively spit on my resume and told me to get fucked. I swear that she had a chat with the CIO of the law school, and they plotted her performance with me. My educational background is a BA in music, so I don’t have rock star credentials. Well…I have very modest rock music credentials, but hiring managers don’t give a shit. So what happened with my current job? It’s a small company. 10-20 people for most of the time I was there. Everything that pissed off the university delights the small business. I was able to wear new hats and jump into little side projects and demonstrate the value of my intelligence and enthusiasm. Also, I can’t overstate this; I work for the best boss I can imagine. She assumes the best in everyone and has a mental growth trajectory for all that isn’t marred by fuck ups. She sees the mistakes as learning, as they should be. I’m far enough along in my line of work where I can see that I’d need to change companies if I wanted a quick and easy promotion or a 20% raise. However, I can build/grow the position I’m in. My ambitions are more tied up in my family and personal wellness and growth lately.

If you can’t get promoted internally, try getting promoted externally :)

by yaacov 5y ago

If you can’t get promoted internally, try getting promoted externally :)

Believe it or not, it can be easier. Often you're seen as a certain type or level in your current job. They can't imagine you doing a different one. Plus, if they promote you, they just have to fill a lower position. A new company doesn't have any of these biases. A friend in night school said he fully expected to have to move to a new company to get promoted. His current boss didn't see him as someone with a masters-level intellect. Of course it's not always this way. Etc. Etc.

amatecha 5y ago
Yeah, as far as I've observed, this is one of the key reasons for consistent short (1-2yr) durations working at companies in the tech industry. You get a raise by getting hired at a new company. Personally for me, each time taking a job at a new employer has resulted in far greater compensation increases than if I had stayed at the same place and waited for a bonus/raise.
macksd 5y ago
There's the perception, yeah. I've also been told that I was so productive in my current role, they saw it as a loss to move me to my target role. Of course, they lost me entirely... There's a place for that: just because someone's a good engineer doesn't make them a good leader or manager, for instance. But such stiff attitudes really hurt an org, IMO.
nzmsv 5y ago
And even if you manage to convince your manager to consider you for the promotion/transfer often they'll ask you to start doing the new job on the side for a bit to prove yourself. Now, how good are you going to be at something new that you are doing part time with nobody taking you seriously and supporting you? It's much easier to get the title first and grow into the job afterwards.

behringer 5y ago

Of course. I'm not going to spend all that time updating my resume and going through all the interview hurdles not to get better paycheck. I'm going to keep applying until I've accomplished getting that better job I'm ready for.

plutonorm 5y ago

This is very very hard to do if you want to go from software engineer to manager. Almost impossible - I have tried sending out hundreds of resumes over periods of years. You need to be promoted internally - but that is impossible unless you know someone. The internal job postings are a sham. I absolutely HATE software development but have been stuck in this role for 15 years and 5 years since I genuinely started loathing it. But there is no escape unless I want to go work in Tescos. I've not seen a promotion into management in my 15 years in the industry across 7 different companies. For all intents and purposes it does not happen and if you go into software, you aren't getting out.

pedrosorio 5y ago
Is this a UK thing? I think I’ve read this before on HN, “getting promoted from software engineer to manager is hard”. It seems to be a cultural thing. In the US, the manager is not seen as “superior” necessarily and many people actively do not want to be promoted (and a bunch of kids pouring into the field every year) so getting a management position is not particularly hard, even if you’re under 30.
- gambiting 5y ago
  I'm in the UK and at you wouldn't have any issue where I work(big AAA games publisher) - very very very few people want to be managers, so if someone expressed interest in managing they'd be given all training and support to make that happen, probably would get them promoted within a year or less. In fact I'd say that with some seniority under your belt you have to start actively avoiding management roles if you don't want them.
  - plutonorm 5y ago
    I don't believe it - have you seen it happen? If someone actually tries to follow that path, they get managed out rather than promoted, I bet you.
    - gambiting 5y ago

maerF0x0 5y ago

As someone who has never been promoted internally, and has been promoted externally on about half my new roles , I can tell you that taking a job elsewhere is the easier path. I wonder if anyone with success getting promoted internally can chime in on what are some good tactics/resources?

n4kana 5y ago
This may not be helpful in the context of Fortune 500 companies, but here it goes. I started at my current small company as a designer in 2011 with minimal formal training and a couple of years of self-taught experience. In the past ten years, I’ve been proposed to Sr. Designer, Consultant, and now Sr. Consultant. Moving from $10/hr to $95k/year in the process. The line of work is AV consulting and programming for commercial architecture. Let me contrast this with my job experience immediately preceding this, circa 2007 to 2011. I worked as an IT Manager at a University Law School. I started as a student help desk and eventually managed the AV systems in the classrooms. I couldn’t get promoted because it was part of a sprawling organization with super rigid job roles. I’d get in trouble for going above and beyond my job role. I wanted better pay at one point, so I applied for the tiniest move-up at a different school on campus and made it through a bunch of interviews until I met with the CIO of that school. She figuratively spit on my resume and told me to get fucked. I swear that she had a chat with the CIO of the law school, and they plotted her performance with me. My educational background is a BA in music, so I don’t have rock star credentials. Well…I have very modest rock music credentials, but hiring managers don’t give a shit. So what happened with my current job? It’s a small company. 10-20 people for most of the time I was there. Everything that pissed off the university delights the small business. I was able to wear new hats and jump into little side projects and demonstrate the value of my intelligence and enthusiasm. Also, I can’t overstate this; I work for the best boss I can imagine. She assumes the best in everyone and has a mental growth trajectory for all that isn’t marred by fuck ups. She sees the mistakes as learning, as they should be. I’m far enough along in my line of work where I can see that I’d need to change companies if I wanted a quick and easy promotion or a 20% raise. However, I can build/grow the position I’m in. My ambitions are more tied up in my family and personal wellness and growth lately.