4 ms·

PC-86-DOS

100 points by kencausey 5y ago

cmrdporcupine 5y ago
Reading the history of Seattle Computer Products at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Computer_Products https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Computer_Products it's kind of depressing ... out of the whole deal with Microsoft they seem to have ended up with an initial $75k from Microsoft in 1981 ($225k in today's dollars) and then an out of court settlement for $925k in 1985 ($2.3m in today's dollars). EDIT: It does seem like the actual programmer, Tim Patterson, did better out of it. After working for SCP, he worked a couple stints at Microsoft, and wrote and sold MSX-DOS for the MSX machines as well.
- WalterBright 5y ago
  If Tim had invested the proceeds in MSFT, he'd have done all right. Of course, history is full of "what ifs" which can drive one crazy.
  - ffhhj 5y ago
    What if... > After Microsoft objected to Brock's "exaggerated interpretation" of the agreement and informed Brock that his license was nontransferable, Brock sued for US$60 million. The ensuing lawsuit was highly technical and grew to fill hundreds of pages in the months leading up to trial. The trial began at the end of 1986 and lasted three weeks. An out-of-court settlement was reached while the jury was deliberating. Microsoft paid SCP US$925,000 and reclaimed its license for DOS. Wow! $60M would have killed the 80's version of MicroSoft.
    - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
      And imagine if Brock had settled for $925,000 worth of MSFT instead of cash. MSFT was $0.10 at IPO in 1986 (accounting for splits, actual price was $21 pre-split) , so he'd have had about 9.5 million shares (after all splits). If he'd kept the stock, it'd be worth $2.9 billion now. Not including any dividends. EDIT: Also, clearly the "$60M" was not a number conjured out of thin air. That's basically Microsoft's market cap at IPO. Suppose Brock was fundamentally trying to make the point that MS's entire financial success had been built off of this deal.
      - WalterBright 5y ago
        I wish I could tell my past self to buy MSFT!
        gscott 5y ago
        Buy now, with going to the cloud the stock will just go up.
        sam345 5y ago
        Theyve been in the coud quite a while now. I did manage to buy some before Azure took off and when most were sour on MS.
- xenadu02 5y ago
  Too bad they didn't insist on some shares in the deal. That would have paid off quite well!
  - kencausey 5y ago
    I doubt that Microsoft looked like a great bet in 1981.
- garaetjjte 5y ago
  Filfre has, as always, great story about it: https://www.filfre.net/2012/05/the-ibm-pc-part-2/ https://www.filfre.net/2012/05/the-ibm-pc-part-2/ https://www.filfre.net/2012/05/the-ibm-pc-part-3/ https://www.filfre.net/2012/05/the-ibm-pc-part-3/ >Paul Allen negotiated an agreement with SCP owner Rod Brock in January, implying that Microsoft had a whole stable of customers eager to run 86-DOS. The deal would essentially allow Microsoft to act as middleman — or, if you like, retailer — in these transactions. For each customer to whom they sold a license for 86-DOS, they would pay SCP $10,000, or $15,000 if the license also included the source code. [...] One clause buried in the contract might have raised a red flag: “Nothing in this licensing agreement shall require Microsoft to identify its customer to Seattle Computer Products.” Brock later said, “That seemed strange to us, but we agreed to go along.” In reality, of course, Microsoft had no stable of eager licensees. They had just one, the biggest fish of all: IBM. Microsoft sold just one license under the agreement, acquiring IBM’s operating system for them complete with source for just $25,000.
  - ttul 5y ago
    Honestly, that’s why you hire good counsel when doing an OEM agreement. It’s not an easy type of agreement to write. So many potential loopholes by which either party can screw the other, as Microsoft clearly did here.
- EvanAnderson 5y ago
  There's a nice talk talk that Tim Paterson gave at Vintage Computer Festival West back in 2019. It's has a nice balance of technical details and background about the business deal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Qh0O3Dt10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Qh0O3Dt10
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
Crontab 5y ago
This website has had so many interesting articles over the years. I really appreciate it.
dhosek 5y ago
Reading about the boot process on floppies for PC-86-DOS and FAT brought me back to the old days of Apple DOS and its track 1/sector 1 boot sequence. I wrote a custom boot loader for the floppies I made without DOS on them that simply put up a message saying that the disk wasn't bootable (since otherwise the Apple ][ would just keep spinning the disk and never get anywhere). I don't remember if it was set up so that you could swap in a new disk and press a key to boot.

100 points by kencausey 5y ago

Reading the history of Seattle Computer Products at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Computer_Products https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Computer_Products it's kind of depressing ... out of the whole deal with Microsoft they seem to have ended up with an initial $75k from Microsoft in 1981 ($225k in today's dollars) and then an out of court settlement for $925k in 1985 ($2.3m in today's dollars). EDIT: It does seem like the actual programmer, Tim Patterson, did better out of it. After working for SCP, he worked a couple stints at Microsoft, and wrote and sold MSX-DOS for the MSX machines as well.

WalterBright 5y ago
If Tim had invested the proceeds in MSFT, he'd have done all right. Of course, history is full of "what ifs" which can drive one crazy.
- ffhhj 5y ago
  What if... > After Microsoft objected to Brock's "exaggerated interpretation" of the agreement and informed Brock that his license was nontransferable, Brock sued for US$60 million. The ensuing lawsuit was highly technical and grew to fill hundreds of pages in the months leading up to trial. The trial began at the end of 1986 and lasted three weeks. An out-of-court settlement was reached while the jury was deliberating. Microsoft paid SCP US$925,000 and reclaimed its license for DOS. Wow! $60M would have killed the 80's version of MicroSoft.
  - cmrdporcupine 5y ago
    And imagine if Brock had settled for $925,000 worth of MSFT instead of cash. MSFT was $0.10 at IPO in 1986 (accounting for splits, actual price was $21 pre-split) , so he'd have had about 9.5 million shares (after all splits). If he'd kept the stock, it'd be worth $2.9 billion now. Not including any dividends. EDIT: Also, clearly the "$60M" was not a number conjured out of thin air. That's basically Microsoft's market cap at IPO. Suppose Brock was fundamentally trying to make the point that MS's entire financial success had been built off of this deal.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      I wish I could tell my past self to buy MSFT!
      - gscott 5y ago
        Buy now, with going to the cloud the stock will just go up.
        sam345 5y ago
        Theyve been in the coud quite a while now. I did manage to buy some before Azure took off and when most were sour on MS.
xenadu02 5y ago
Too bad they didn't insist on some shares in the deal. That would have paid off quite well!
- kencausey 5y ago
  I doubt that Microsoft looked like a great bet in 1981.
garaetjjte 5y ago
Filfre has, as always, great story about it: https://www.filfre.net/2012/05/the-ibm-pc-part-2/ https://www.filfre.net/2012/05/the-ibm-pc-part-2/ https://www.filfre.net/2012/05/the-ibm-pc-part-3/ https://www.filfre.net/2012/05/the-ibm-pc-part-3/ >Paul Allen negotiated an agreement with SCP owner Rod Brock in January, implying that Microsoft had a whole stable of customers eager to run 86-DOS. The deal would essentially allow Microsoft to act as middleman — or, if you like, retailer — in these transactions. For each customer to whom they sold a license for 86-DOS, they would pay SCP $10,000, or $15,000 if the license also included the source code. [...] One clause buried in the contract might have raised a red flag: “Nothing in this licensing agreement shall require Microsoft to identify its customer to Seattle Computer Products.” Brock later said, “That seemed strange to us, but we agreed to go along.” In reality, of course, Microsoft had no stable of eager licensees. They had just one, the biggest fish of all: IBM. Microsoft sold just one license under the agreement, acquiring IBM’s operating system for them complete with source for just $25,000.
- ttul 5y ago
  Honestly, that’s why you hire good counsel when doing an OEM agreement. It’s not an easy type of agreement to write. So many potential loopholes by which either party can screw the other, as Microsoft clearly did here.
EvanAnderson 5y ago
There's a nice talk talk that Tim Paterson gave at Vintage Computer Festival West back in 2019. It's has a nice balance of technical details and background about the business deal. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Qh0O3Dt10 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2Qh0O3Dt10

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

Crontab 5y ago

This website has had so many interesting articles over the years. I really appreciate it.

dhosek 5y ago

Reading about the boot process on floppies for PC-86-DOS and FAT brought me back to the old days of Apple DOS and its track 1/sector 1 boot sequence. I wrote a custom boot loader for the floppies I made without DOS on them that simply put up a message saying that the disk wasn't bootable (since otherwise the Apple ][ would just keep spinning the disk and never get anywhere). I don't remember if it was set up so that you could swap in a new disk and press a key to boot.