6 ms·

Its a controversial opinion (I think) but I'm inclined to agree. I do tend to find that devs are often much harsher to other devs, sometimes unfairly so, than a

Its a controversial opinion (I think) but I'm inclined to agree. I do tend to find that devs are often much harsher to other devs, sometimes unfairly so, than any other profession that I know of. If you complain your mechanic is slow and expensive, a load of other mechanics will come and tell you (and probably rightly so) that the job is more difficult and complex than you know of. But you don't see that often with devs, which is a bit disappointing.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
Probably because your mechanic isn't actively making your car perform worse, gluing ads onto the body, or redesigning your steering wheel based on the latest fads.
- bodge5000 5y ago
  I highly doubt the devs themselves run microsoft. I could be wrong but theres probably a manager or two in there as well. Maybe I'm stuck in the past, but I was under the impression that devs build the thing, others decide what it is thats built. If that is the case, then I personally wouldn't call a dev 'incompetant' because of a decision not made by them. Of course you could say they should stand up against this, but again, whilst theres this hostility towards other devs, why are you going to risk not being able to put food on the table for someone on the internet who thinks your an idiot? (As an aside, the analogy doesn't really stretch that far since developers are hired by companies whereas mechanics are paid directly by customers. Perhaps car designers would be a better fit here, but again, other car designers would be quick to point out the problems with your complaints, but thats by the by)
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    > Of course you could say they should stand up against this, but again, whilst theres this hostility towards other devs, why are you going to risk not being able to put food on the table for someone on the internet who thinks your an idiot? Very few developers are in the position of starving if they refuse to implement terrible ideas. If they are in that position, fine, but at least feel an appropriate amount of shame for the garbage you're making. > Perhaps car designers would be a better fit here, but again, other car designers would be quick to point out the problems with your complaints, but thats by the by I think the car designer version supports what I'm saying: Tesla wants to replace the steering wheel with a yoke and people are rightly criticizing them for it.
    - ed_elliott_asc 5y ago
      I’m a contractor working for a consultancy who is working for a tobacco company, I was told it would be a retail client and I feel bad, not bad enough to quit immediately as i do genuinely need the money right now but I’ll leave when I can. (I tried passive aggressively quitting by insisting they put my day rate up expecting them to say no but they did)
  - throwaway675309 5y ago
    All things aside, I really doubt that engineers working on critical infrastructure of one of the most popular OS for Microsoft couldn't INSTANTLY get another dev job literally almost anywhere else.
- nhinck 5y ago
  > gluing ads onto the body Surprisingly I have heard of this being done. Mechanics placing stickers on windows without permission.
  - ChuckNorris89 5y ago
    I see this in Europe a lot. Brand new cars often have the dealership name and logo on a sticker on the back window, or the license plate frame, or even the body of the car. Jesus Christ, is the dealership playing me to advertise their business on the item I just paid them money for?! If not, then take that branding shit off!
    - jagger27 5y ago
      This happens in North America too. I explicitly asked the dealer where I bought my car not to slap their unpaid adverts all over it, and they still put a sticker on the trunk lid, a license plate frame on the rear, and an inventory tracking sticker on the windshield.
    - BugWatch 5y ago
      I also prefer all my cloths unbranded.
dylan604 5y ago
I see you've never been in a video editing bay. An editor is where all of the results from the other crafts of trade all land in one pile. Plus, it's actually the editor's job to get rid of the crap and pull out the gems. The vitriol I've heard (and given) from an edit bay would make for a great niche series that would only be understood by other editors (meaning it would not be succesful).
- bodge5000 5y ago
  That sounds more like banter (or something like that) to me to be honest, I haven't been to a video editing bay so yeh I have no idea, but to be honest in my experience the vitriol given is inversely proportional to how serious it is. As I said, could be wrong though, maybe developers arent alone in not liking each other
  - dylan604 5y ago
    >As I said, could be wrong though, maybe developers arent alone in not liking each other of course there are other groups of people that don't like other people. have you seen the world today?
    - bodge5000 5y ago
      I assume your joking, but there has been a problem of people taking things far too literally in this thread, so in case not, I meant developers being often unfairly harsh to other developers.
      - dylan604 5y ago
        >maybe developers arent alone in not liking each other Of course I'm not dead serious, but there is some seriousness implied. You called out devs specifically not being alone in not liking one another. I made a reference to another profession that doesn't like their direct related counterparts. What in the world did you think that meant? There are not chefs that don't like other chefs or that there are not chefs that don't like devs?
veltas 5y ago
I told my current mechanic about my last mechanic's quote for a job and they laughed and said it was a rip-off and otherwise derided them. And my current mechanic works fast and doesn't waste my money.
- ed_elliott_asc 5y ago
  Have your wheels fallen off yet :)
shawnz 5y ago
Anecdotally I think it's pretty common for mechanics to claim that their competitors don't know what they're doing.
- bodge5000 5y ago
  Maybe that was a terrible example, although I could be wrong. It kind of makes sense actually, of course I hear of more developers being hostile to other developers compared to say mechanics, but that could be because I hear from more developers full stop. There's probably a term for it and everything. That being said, I'm sure I've come across a lot more camaraderie amongst other professions than developers. Anecdotally, I know theres been a few times I've complained about or seen people complain about a certain profession and seen a wave of posts come in from other workers defending them. Then again, its possible those just stick out in my mind more than the many times that presumably hasn't happened.
  - ralgozino 5y ago
    I think that you have this impression because you are comparing the inside of a professional environment with the outside of others. I'm pretty sure that in inner circles of other professions they speak trash of others, but you don't see it from the outside, just like a random Joe won't never read HN whrrry devs speak trash of other devs
Rd6n6 5y ago
Other professions have professional organizations that have strict rules about maintaining the public trust in the profession. Challenging each other’s competence publicly is really discouraged. By contrast, many trades people can criticize each other and do so endlessly… even though those trades have a higher bar for being allowed to practice than software does. It’s harder to make a spaghetti mess that somebody else has to build on because of standards and physical constraints too
- bodge5000 5y ago
  I think that might be it, mechanics wasn't really the example I was going for, but I couldn't think of the actual profession (something like an architect I guess). I guess it might just be a trades thing, which as you say makes sense

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago

Probably because your mechanic isn't actively making your car perform worse, gluing ads onto the body, or redesigning your steering wheel based on the latest fads.

bodge5000 5y ago
I highly doubt the devs themselves run microsoft. I could be wrong but theres probably a manager or two in there as well. Maybe I'm stuck in the past, but I was under the impression that devs build the thing, others decide what it is thats built. If that is the case, then I personally wouldn't call a dev 'incompetant' because of a decision not made by them. Of course you could say they should stand up against this, but again, whilst theres this hostility towards other devs, why are you going to risk not being able to put food on the table for someone on the internet who thinks your an idiot? (As an aside, the analogy doesn't really stretch that far since developers are hired by companies whereas mechanics are paid directly by customers. Perhaps car designers would be a better fit here, but again, other car designers would be quick to point out the problems with your complaints, but thats by the by)
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  > Of course you could say they should stand up against this, but again, whilst theres this hostility towards other devs, why are you going to risk not being able to put food on the table for someone on the internet who thinks your an idiot? Very few developers are in the position of starving if they refuse to implement terrible ideas. If they are in that position, fine, but at least feel an appropriate amount of shame for the garbage you're making. > Perhaps car designers would be a better fit here, but again, other car designers would be quick to point out the problems with your complaints, but thats by the by I think the car designer version supports what I'm saying: Tesla wants to replace the steering wheel with a yoke and people are rightly criticizing them for it.
  - ed_elliott_asc 5y ago
    I’m a contractor working for a consultancy who is working for a tobacco company, I was told it would be a retail client and I feel bad, not bad enough to quit immediately as i do genuinely need the money right now but I’ll leave when I can. (I tried passive aggressively quitting by insisting they put my day rate up expecting them to say no but they did)
- throwaway675309 5y ago
  All things aside, I really doubt that engineers working on critical infrastructure of one of the most popular OS for Microsoft couldn't INSTANTLY get another dev job literally almost anywhere else.
nhinck 5y ago
> gluing ads onto the body Surprisingly I have heard of this being done. Mechanics placing stickers on windows without permission.
- ChuckNorris89 5y ago
  I see this in Europe a lot. Brand new cars often have the dealership name and logo on a sticker on the back window, or the license plate frame, or even the body of the car. Jesus Christ, is the dealership playing me to advertise their business on the item I just paid them money for?! If not, then take that branding shit off!
  - jagger27 5y ago
    This happens in North America too. I explicitly asked the dealer where I bought my car not to slap their unpaid adverts all over it, and they still put a sticker on the trunk lid, a license plate frame on the rear, and an inventory tracking sticker on the windshield.
  - BugWatch 5y ago
    I also prefer all my cloths unbranded.

dylan604 5y ago

I see you've never been in a video editing bay. An editor is where all of the results from the other crafts of trade all land in one pile. Plus, it's actually the editor's job to get rid of the crap and pull out the gems. The vitriol I've heard (and given) from an edit bay would make for a great niche series that would only be understood by other editors (meaning it would not be succesful).

bodge5000 5y ago
That sounds more like banter (or something like that) to me to be honest, I haven't been to a video editing bay so yeh I have no idea, but to be honest in my experience the vitriol given is inversely proportional to how serious it is. As I said, could be wrong though, maybe developers arent alone in not liking each other
- dylan604 5y ago
  >As I said, could be wrong though, maybe developers arent alone in not liking each other of course there are other groups of people that don't like other people. have you seen the world today?
  - bodge5000 5y ago
    I assume your joking, but there has been a problem of people taking things far too literally in this thread, so in case not, I meant developers being often unfairly harsh to other developers.
    - dylan604 5y ago
      >maybe developers arent alone in not liking each other Of course I'm not dead serious, but there is some seriousness implied. You called out devs specifically not being alone in not liking one another. I made a reference to another profession that doesn't like their direct related counterparts. What in the world did you think that meant? There are not chefs that don't like other chefs or that there are not chefs that don't like devs?

veltas 5y ago

I told my current mechanic about my last mechanic's quote for a job and they laughed and said it was a rip-off and otherwise derided them. And my current mechanic works fast and doesn't waste my money.

ed_elliott_asc 5y ago
Have your wheels fallen off yet :)

shawnz 5y ago

Anecdotally I think it's pretty common for mechanics to claim that their competitors don't know what they're doing.

bodge5000 5y ago
Maybe that was a terrible example, although I could be wrong. It kind of makes sense actually, of course I hear of more developers being hostile to other developers compared to say mechanics, but that could be because I hear from more developers full stop. There's probably a term for it and everything. That being said, I'm sure I've come across a lot more camaraderie amongst other professions than developers. Anecdotally, I know theres been a few times I've complained about or seen people complain about a certain profession and seen a wave of posts come in from other workers defending them. Then again, its possible those just stick out in my mind more than the many times that presumably hasn't happened.
- ralgozino 5y ago
  I think that you have this impression because you are comparing the inside of a professional environment with the outside of others. I'm pretty sure that in inner circles of other professions they speak trash of others, but you don't see it from the outside, just like a random Joe won't never read HN whrrry devs speak trash of other devs

Rd6n6 5y ago

Other professions have professional organizations that have strict rules about maintaining the public trust in the profession. Challenging each other’s competence publicly is really discouraged. By contrast, many trades people can criticize each other and do so endlessly… even though those trades have a higher bar for being allowed to practice than software does. It’s harder to make a spaghetti mess that somebody else has to build on because of standards and physical constraints too

bodge5000 5y ago
I think that might be it, mechanics wasn't really the example I was going for, but I couldn't think of the actual profession (something like an architect I guess). I guess it might just be a trades thing, which as you say makes sense