10 ms·

The biggest deal breaker I have seen with win11 so far is the following: https://chromeunboxed.com/windows-11-insider-preview-chrome-default-difficulties https

by cm2187 5y ago

The biggest deal breaker I have seen with win11 so far is the following: https://chromeunboxed.com/windows-11-insider-preview-chrome-default-difficulties https://chromeunboxed.com/windows-11-insider-preview-chrome-... Microsoft was already overriding your default apps regularly. But now to change back the default browser it looks like it will require many manual steps if I understood correctly. Multiply that by multiple machines...

Frenchgeek 5y ago
Welp... Good thing Wine and Proton keep getting better... Because unless Microsoft pay for my computer, I won't allow them to act as if they own it.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
  I hear you. Don't get me wrong, I have plenty to complain about in Linux too which is why I'm still on Windows, but the day is coming where Microsoft has finally made Windows so shitty that it drives me away.
  - seph-reed 5y ago
    I switched over to ElementaryOS for my movie/music/games/3d-modeling/video-editing/daw machine a bit ago. It's pretty, and it (mostly) "just works." I legitimately believe this project is on its way to eat Windows and Apples pies. Worth watching the progress of: https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      I don't particularly appreciate Linux distributions that try to pretend they're not Linux distributions by slapping "OS" in their name. Regardless, Elementary doesn't fix any of the issues I personally have with Linux Desktop that keep me from switching today.
      - selfhoster11 5y ago
        Eh, IDK. The Arch and Ubuntu experience are very far apart for me, especially as far as hardware support goes (beyond just kernel drivers, I mean - lots of devices need userland utilities to support their functionality, things like remote scanning for instance). They are different OSes that happen to share a kernel, but that's it. Even the userland close to the kernel can be very different.
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        They share a kernel, shells, package management as an application distribution model, and many disparately developed complex systems. They all run the same software more or less. Once you've used a few dozen different Linux distros, which I have over the 20 years I've used Linux for things, you find that almost all of them are basically the same. Occasionally there's an outlier like Gobolinux or Rox that everyone ignores but even they still has most software in common.
    - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
      Which applications do you use for video editing and DAW? How does the experience measure up to the competition on Windows?
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    Meh, for all of Linux's minor inconveniences it works pretty damn well and the freedom to not deal with MS and Apple's bullshit is a pretty big win.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
      That's subjective. There are deeply ingrained paradigms on Linux that infuriate me to the point that, thus far, I'm more willing to put up with MS's bullshit than I am with Linux Desktop's.
      - ravar 5y ago
        Ditch the Desktop, embrace i3.
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        Even if I liked tiling wms and keyboard-only GUI that wouldn't actually fix many of the issues I have with Linux Desktop. The issues have to do with the multitude of disparately developed complex systems that are kludged together under the hood.
        jagger27 5y ago
        Or Sway, which is more or less i3-upon-Wayland.
      - jmholla 5y ago
        I'm curious what those are. If they're around the UI, I've found Cinnamon is a really good approximation.
        AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        I'm already getting downvotes just for mentioning the things I've already mentioned. Unfortunately this is the common reaction whenever anyone brings up having problems with the way Linux Desktop does things. It's apparently ok to complain about lacking hardware support because that's a problem people can dismiss easily with "just buy different hardware", but if you say something like you don't want to use Linux because you think package management is a stupid way to manage applications then people just want you to shut up.
  - Frenchgeek 5y ago
    Well, I did spend a few days finding a modern version of Linux that can run on a Mac mini PPC... Its OS X was outdated so I installed Yellowdog on it, then Debian and now that Debian don't support 32 bits G4 anymore all I found was Void Linux. Plus side: there's so little loading at boot, it start very fast. Downside: I had to install Linux like it's 1995. So I know well Linux is far from perfect... But it has become at least as good as the competition for my uses.
    - pabs3 5y ago
      Debian still has an unofficial 32-bit powerpc port, just doesn't have security supported releases of the port.
- alerighi 5y ago
  I recently switched back to Linux after not using it as my main OS for a couple of years. I was surprised how better it got, one example, everything worked well out of the box, and I installed Arch Linux not Ubuntu, no problem at all, GNOME 40 is great, fonts are good out of the box, gestures that works, things like screen brightness works, Wayland is finally stable, printer installs without too much trouble.
  - orf 5y ago
    You're damning it with faint praise there rather than selling it.
neogodless 5y ago
But why would you want to default to Chrome and not Firefox... ? OK OK the point is, it should be the user's choice to (easily) switch. Even if they are wrong!
- C19is20 5y ago
  The user is never wrong, just sometimes incorrect.
philipov 5y ago
> Windows 11 Insider Preview makes it more difficult for users to default to Chrome Are they implying that it won't be more difficult to default to Firefox? I ditched Chrome already.
chris37879 5y ago
Eh, give it a day or two, someone will make a tool that sets it and keeps it set just like they did for Windows 10, or, leave. That's what I'm doing, Windows 10 currently only gets booted for me to play a couple e-sports games with bad DRM that some of my friends and I play together, other than that, I'm in Linux full time on Pop_OS!
- Arisaka1 5y ago
  I'm sure someone will come up with a tool to fix a Windows feature yet again (like they did with Start shell). But we have to judge the intention of the original product designer and all I see is regress.
criley2 5y ago
I wonder if users who are unwilling to deal with increased hassle in browser changing will also give up things like iPhone/iOS which outright ban competing browser engines.
- colejohnson66 5y ago
  Nitpick: they don’t ban competing engines. They disallow JITing JavaScript outside a WebView. Firefox or Chrome could include their own, but the wouldn’t be able to JIT the JavaScript. A distinction without a difference, but it’s a lie to say they ban other engines.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - code_duck 5y ago
    Do you think it would be accurate to say that functionally or effectively bans competing engines by forbidding a major component? I believe Mozilla or Google would prioritize including their own engine if it was reasonably possible.
    - diamondo25 5y ago
      Yes. But I don't think its allowed to run a virtual machine of any kind in the App Store, which the browser javascript engine is/has been.
      - code_duck 5y ago
        Apple is not a slave to or victim of their own policy. I feel like a browser is an important and unique enough piece of software that they could choose to make an exception, but obviously it doesn’t fit their business goals which appear to essentially the same as what Microsoft was thinking with Internet Explorer 6.
  - csande17 5y ago
    Yes they do: > 2.5.6 Apps that browse the web must use the appropriate WebKit framework and WebKit Javascript. https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/
themulticaster 5y ago
Somewhat related: I removed Edge a few years ago because I didn't use it and thought it's just a regular application. A recent Windows update however just wouldn't install: Every time it would abort and roll back the update installation just after the reboot, reporting one of those mysterious and very helpful Windows Update error codes. After a few days of scratching my head I found out that due to a bug, that specific update [1] can't be installed unless Edge is installed (prior to the update). IIRC the reason is that helpfully Windows installs the lastest Edge version for you during the OS update, so that "you can experience the fastest web browser, Microsoft Edge!" (or something like that, you know the drill. Nowadays it's not even supported to remove Edge since - according to certain Windows news outlets - Edge is somehow integrated into Windows 10 so by removing it you could break the OS. (Just why??) The aforementioned news outlets also ask why you would ever want to remove Edge - "Have you tried the new Edge browser? It's quite fast nowadays!" To clarify: I am not opposed to Edge itself in any way, but the whole "Why would you ever want to do that?" rubs me the wrong way. Another "Why would you ever want to do that?" story: IIRC, in Windows 8 there was a semi-official way to place your home directory on a different drive than your system directory. Back then I had a 128 GB SSD I wanted to use as a system drive for Windows, but because my downloads folder quickly accumulates a lot of baggage (> 50 GB) I wanted to place it on another drive. A few years down the road the upgrade to Windows 10 failed with a mysterious error code. Again, after a few days of scratching my head I found out that my setup (with the home directory on another drive) is not supported for the Windows 8.1 to 10 upgrade. Common Windows news outlets and forums also commented this issue along the lines of "Why would you ever place your home directory on another drive?" I guess I was too spoiled with the UNIX way (of separate mount points inside a unified hierarchy) to see the error in my ways... (/s) [1] Sorry, I don't remember the specific error code or update number anymore. Perhaps the 2004 update?
- LorenPechtel 5y ago
  They got slammed by anti-trust over integrating Explorer before. They should be slammed 10x as hard over this.
  - GuB-42 5y ago

by cm2187 5y ago

Frenchgeek 5y ago

Welp... Good thing Wine and Proton keep getting better... Because unless Microsoft pay for my computer, I won't allow them to act as if they own it.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
I hear you. Don't get me wrong, I have plenty to complain about in Linux too which is why I'm still on Windows, but the day is coming where Microsoft has finally made Windows so shitty that it drives me away.
- seph-reed 5y ago
  I switched over to ElementaryOS for my movie/music/games/3d-modeling/video-editing/daw machine a bit ago. It's pretty, and it (mostly) "just works." I legitimately believe this project is on its way to eat Windows and Apples pies. Worth watching the progress of: https://elementary.io/ https://elementary.io/
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    I don't particularly appreciate Linux distributions that try to pretend they're not Linux distributions by slapping "OS" in their name. Regardless, Elementary doesn't fix any of the issues I personally have with Linux Desktop that keep me from switching today.
    - selfhoster11 5y ago
      Eh, IDK. The Arch and Ubuntu experience are very far apart for me, especially as far as hardware support goes (beyond just kernel drivers, I mean - lots of devices need userland utilities to support their functionality, things like remote scanning for instance). They are different OSes that happen to share a kernel, but that's it. Even the userland close to the kernel can be very different.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        They share a kernel, shells, package management as an application distribution model, and many disparately developed complex systems. They all run the same software more or less. Once you've used a few dozen different Linux distros, which I have over the 20 years I've used Linux for things, you find that almost all of them are basically the same. Occasionally there's an outlier like Gobolinux or Rox that everyone ignores but even they still has most software in common.
  - Tijdreiziger 5y ago
    Which applications do you use for video editing and DAW? How does the experience measure up to the competition on Windows?
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  Meh, for all of Linux's minor inconveniences it works pretty damn well and the freedom to not deal with MS and Apple's bullshit is a pretty big win.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
    That's subjective. There are deeply ingrained paradigms on Linux that infuriate me to the point that, thus far, I'm more willing to put up with MS's bullshit than I am with Linux Desktop's.
    - ravar 5y ago
      Ditch the Desktop, embrace i3.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        Even if I liked tiling wms and keyboard-only GUI that wouldn't actually fix many of the issues I have with Linux Desktop. The issues have to do with the multitude of disparately developed complex systems that are kludged together under the hood.
      - jagger27 5y ago
        Or Sway, which is more or less i3-upon-Wayland.
    - jmholla 5y ago
      I'm curious what those are. If they're around the UI, I've found Cinnamon is a really good approximation.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 5y ago
        I'm already getting downvotes just for mentioning the things I've already mentioned. Unfortunately this is the common reaction whenever anyone brings up having problems with the way Linux Desktop does things. It's apparently ok to complain about lacking hardware support because that's a problem people can dismiss easily with "just buy different hardware", but if you say something like you don't want to use Linux because you think package management is a stupid way to manage applications then people just want you to shut up.
- Frenchgeek 5y ago
  Well, I did spend a few days finding a modern version of Linux that can run on a Mac mini PPC... Its OS X was outdated so I installed Yellowdog on it, then Debian and now that Debian don't support 32 bits G4 anymore all I found was Void Linux. Plus side: there's so little loading at boot, it start very fast. Downside: I had to install Linux like it's 1995. So I know well Linux is far from perfect... But it has become at least as good as the competition for my uses.
  - pabs3 5y ago
    Debian still has an unofficial 32-bit powerpc port, just doesn't have security supported releases of the port.
alerighi 5y ago
I recently switched back to Linux after not using it as my main OS for a couple of years. I was surprised how better it got, one example, everything worked well out of the box, and I installed Arch Linux not Ubuntu, no problem at all, GNOME 40 is great, fonts are good out of the box, gestures that works, things like screen brightness works, Wayland is finally stable, printer installs without too much trouble.
- orf 5y ago
  You're damning it with faint praise there rather than selling it.

neogodless 5y ago

But why would you want to default to Chrome and not Firefox... ? OK OK the point is, it should be the user's choice to (easily) switch. Even if they are wrong!

C19is20 5y ago
The user is never wrong, just sometimes incorrect.

philipov 5y ago

> Windows 11 Insider Preview makes it more difficult for users to default to Chrome Are they implying that it won't be more difficult to default to Firefox? I ditched Chrome already.

chris37879 5y ago

Eh, give it a day or two, someone will make a tool that sets it and keeps it set just like they did for Windows 10, or, leave. That's what I'm doing, Windows 10 currently only gets booted for me to play a couple e-sports games with bad DRM that some of my friends and I play together, other than that, I'm in Linux full time on Pop_OS!

Arisaka1 5y ago
I'm sure someone will come up with a tool to fix a Windows feature yet again (like they did with Start shell). But we have to judge the intention of the original product designer and all I see is regress.

criley2 5y ago

I wonder if users who are unwilling to deal with increased hassle in browser changing will also give up things like iPhone/iOS which outright ban competing browser engines.

colejohnson66 5y ago
Nitpick: they don’t ban competing engines. They disallow JITing JavaScript outside a WebView. Firefox or Chrome could include their own, but the wouldn’t be able to JIT the JavaScript. A distinction without a difference, but it’s a lie to say they ban other engines.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- code_duck 5y ago
  Do you think it would be accurate to say that functionally or effectively bans competing engines by forbidding a major component? I believe Mozilla or Google would prioritize including their own engine if it was reasonably possible.
  - diamondo25 5y ago
    Yes. But I don't think its allowed to run a virtual machine of any kind in the App Store, which the browser javascript engine is/has been.
    - code_duck 5y ago
      Apple is not a slave to or victim of their own policy. I feel like a browser is an important and unique enough piece of software that they could choose to make an exception, but obviously it doesn’t fit their business goals which appear to essentially the same as what Microsoft was thinking with Internet Explorer 6.
- csande17 5y ago
  Yes they do: > 2.5.6 Apps that browse the web must use the appropriate WebKit framework and WebKit Javascript. https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/

themulticaster 5y ago

Somewhat related: I removed Edge a few years ago because I didn't use it and thought it's just a regular application. A recent Windows update however just wouldn't install: Every time it would abort and roll back the update installation just after the reboot, reporting one of those mysterious and very helpful Windows Update error codes. After a few days of scratching my head I found out that due to a bug, that specific update [1] can't be installed unless Edge is installed (prior to the update). IIRC the reason is that helpfully Windows installs the lastest Edge version for you during the OS update, so that "you can experience the fastest web browser, Microsoft Edge!" (or something like that, you know the drill. Nowadays it's not even supported to remove Edge since - according to certain Windows news outlets - Edge is somehow integrated into Windows 10 so by removing it you could break the OS. (Just why??) The aforementioned news outlets also ask why you would ever want to remove Edge - "Have you tried the new Edge browser? It's quite fast nowadays!" To clarify: I am not opposed to Edge itself in any way, but the whole "Why would you ever want to do that?" rubs me the wrong way. Another "Why would you ever want to do that?" story: IIRC, in Windows 8 there was a semi-official way to place your home directory on a different drive than your system directory. Back then I had a 128 GB SSD I wanted to use as a system drive for Windows, but because my downloads folder quickly accumulates a lot of baggage (> 50 GB) I wanted to place it on another drive. A few years down the road the upgrade to Windows 10 failed with a mysterious error code. Again, after a few days of scratching my head I found out that my setup (with the home directory on another drive) is not supported for the Windows 8.1 to 10 upgrade. Common Windows news outlets and forums also commented this issue along the lines of "Why would you ever place your home directory on another drive?" I guess I was too spoiled with the UNIX way (of separate mount points inside a unified hierarchy) to see the error in my ways... (/s) [1] Sorry, I don't remember the specific error code or update number anymore. Perhaps the 2004 update?

LorenPechtel 5y ago
They got slammed by anti-trust over integrating Explorer before. They should be slammed 10x as hard over this.
- GuB-42 5y ago