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this whole thing just made me wake up to how much control that company has over something that's supposed to belong to those who buy it!!

slg 5y ago
I don't know why more people didn't come to this conclusion. The choice between scanning the files before upload to the cloud or after upload to the cloud is largely a policy decision and not a technical one since Apple already controls both ends of that process. If you don't trust them to scan things on your device why are you trusting them to scan things in the cloud and why are you trusting them with both the hardware and software you run?
- wizee 5y ago
  1. They own their cloud, you own your device. Having your own device work against you is more problematic in principle than having another party you give your data to working against you. I don’t like the concept of devices that I own betraying me. 2. When scanning is done locally, it’s easier for them to secretly or openly modify the software to scan everything on your device, rather than just what’s just uploaded to iCloud. If they tried scanning everything (including non-iCloud images) in the cloud, the network traffic of uploading every image on your device to the cloud would be observable.
  - slg 5y ago
    You seemed to have missed my point. They control the entire ecosystem. If you are worried about them doing something secretly to violate your trust, you should assume they are already compromised because the only thing stopping them is a policy decision and not a technical limitation.
    - fsflover 5y ago
      The difference is, they promised not to look at personal files. If you are using their devices you trust their promises. Now, they broke their promise and a lot of people are loosing the trust.
      - slg 5y ago
        >they promised not to look at personal files Where was this promise stated in these explicit terms, especially the definition of "personal files"? Because Apple is also promising that this only applies to file that are set to be uploaded to iCloud and the expectation of privacy is different for files uploaded to the cloud. Either Apple's promises can be trusted or they can't. And if they can't, you can't trust anything about their devices.
        dschuessler 5y ago
        I think this comes pretty close to what you're asking for: https://www.maclife.de/media/maclife/styles/tec_frontend_large/public/images/editors/2021_13/image-118863--4584679.jpeg?itok=xWB0Yz9Q https://www.maclife.de/media/maclife/styles/tec_frontend_lar... Of course it is not an explicit promise and doesn't refer to "personal files" but I think it shows where OP is coming from. You can reasonably understand this message in the way they do.
        slg 5y ago
        "What happens on your iPhone stays on your iPhone" can't be literally true or else your phone wouldn't be able to communicate with any other devices. There is therefore an implicit exception for data that you choose to send elsewhere. As I said, Apple was only planning to scan photos you were sending to iCloud. Therefore these are already files that you agreed to send off your device and they shouldn't be assumed to be covered by that marketing slogan as you are the one choosing to contradict it. You want "What happens on your iPhone to stay on your iPhone"? Turn off iCloud.
        fsflover 5y ago
        This should be the default, according to that advertisement.
        slg 5y ago
        Are you asking for the out of the box default to be that your iPhone can't send an email or iMessage because that wouldn't "stay on your iPhone" either? The marketing speak is marketing speak and obviously not literal.
  - ohazi 5y ago
    > They own their cloud, you own your device. They push arbitrary software updates to your device at their whim, therefore they own your device.
Terretta 5y ago
Arguably, we are still collectively asleep that the real problem needing solving is client-side SDKs.
- spicybright 5y ago
  Can you expand on that?
lm28469 5y ago
> company has over something that's supposed to belong to those who buy it!! If it's not written in the law nothing is "supposed to"

slg 5y ago

I don't know why more people didn't come to this conclusion. The choice between scanning the files before upload to the cloud or after upload to the cloud is largely a policy decision and not a technical one since Apple already controls both ends of that process. If you don't trust them to scan things on your device why are you trusting them to scan things in the cloud and why are you trusting them with both the hardware and software you run?

wizee 5y ago
1. They own their cloud, you own your device. Having your own device work against you is more problematic in principle than having another party you give your data to working against you. I don’t like the concept of devices that I own betraying me. 2. When scanning is done locally, it’s easier for them to secretly or openly modify the software to scan everything on your device, rather than just what’s just uploaded to iCloud. If they tried scanning everything (including non-iCloud images) in the cloud, the network traffic of uploading every image on your device to the cloud would be observable.
- slg 5y ago
  You seemed to have missed my point. They control the entire ecosystem. If you are worried about them doing something secretly to violate your trust, you should assume they are already compromised because the only thing stopping them is a policy decision and not a technical limitation.
  - fsflover 5y ago
    The difference is, they promised not to look at personal files. If you are using their devices you trust their promises. Now, they broke their promise and a lot of people are loosing the trust.
    - slg 5y ago
      >they promised not to look at personal files Where was this promise stated in these explicit terms, especially the definition of "personal files"? Because Apple is also promising that this only applies to file that are set to be uploaded to iCloud and the expectation of privacy is different for files uploaded to the cloud. Either Apple's promises can be trusted or they can't. And if they can't, you can't trust anything about their devices.
      - dschuessler 5y ago
        I think this comes pretty close to what you're asking for: https://www.maclife.de/media/maclife/styles/tec_frontend_large/public/images/editors/2021_13/image-118863--4584679.jpeg?itok=xWB0Yz9Q https://www.maclife.de/media/maclife/styles/tec_frontend_lar... Of course it is not an explicit promise and doesn't refer to "personal files" but I think it shows where OP is coming from. You can reasonably understand this message in the way they do.
        slg 5y ago
        "What happens on your iPhone stays on your iPhone" can't be literally true or else your phone wouldn't be able to communicate with any other devices. There is therefore an implicit exception for data that you choose to send elsewhere. As I said, Apple was only planning to scan photos you were sending to iCloud. Therefore these are already files that you agreed to send off your device and they shouldn't be assumed to be covered by that marketing slogan as you are the one choosing to contradict it. You want "What happens on your iPhone to stay on your iPhone"? Turn off iCloud.
        fsflover 5y ago
        This should be the default, according to that advertisement.
        slg 5y ago
        Are you asking for the out of the box default to be that your iPhone can't send an email or iMessage because that wouldn't "stay on your iPhone" either? The marketing speak is marketing speak and obviously not literal.
- ohazi 5y ago
  > They own their cloud, you own your device. They push arbitrary software updates to your device at their whim, therefore they own your device.

Terretta 5y ago

Arguably, we are still collectively asleep that the real problem needing solving is client-side SDKs.

spicybright 5y ago
Can you expand on that?

lm28469 5y ago

> company has over something that's supposed to belong to those who buy it!! If it's not written in the law nothing is "supposed to"