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What you don't know about working at AWS

8 points by NikolaNovak 5y ago

webmaven 5y ago
I wonder if external entities (eg. Elastic) can also successfully use the Leadership Principles to frame disputes with AWS, or if an effort like that would fall flat.
- ipsocannibal 5y ago
  I think the fact that all Amazon corp employees still sign a non-compete yet there is an LP titled "Strive to be Earth’s Best Employer" whose definition includes "Leaders have a vision for and commitment to their employees’ personal success, whether that be at Amazon or elsewhere." highlights what the company actually values, i.e. internal propaganda and external litigiousness. Good luck quoting LP's to an Amazon lawyer.
  - webmaven 5y ago
    One could be extremely generous and assume that the LPs date from before Amazon sprawled into so many market segments (ie. it looks rather different if the noncompete only constrains a former employee from working for other online book retailers). Is there a revision history for the LPs? In fact, have they ever been revised at all?
NikolaNovak 5y ago
This is kind of terrifying: *When I joined AWS, I initially avoided using the LPs in discussions. It didn’t go well. I’d say, “We should contribute to project X because it’s the right thing to do!” Blank stares. “We need to give engineers more time to contribute to project Y so we can influence the project’s direction.” Raised eyebrows. I was getting nowhere. *But then I tried framing my arguments with the LPs and things got much better. I started saying things like, “It’s hard to ‘Obsess over Customers’ and deliver innovation with ‘Frugality’ if we don’t ‘Earn Trust’ with the communities we depend on by making code contributions. This also allows us to ‘Insist on the Highest Standards’ because our contributions put us in a better position to ‘Deliver Results’ and support customers.” *Suddenly, people understood what I meant I can't tell if people "suddenly understood", or are LPs just terrifying sticks managers use to get their way, and once phrased that way nobody dares dissent. The transformation of communication is exactly what I experienced in communist party governing meetings decades ago - who is going to fit their wants into official paradigm better and thus hit with a bigger Big Brother stick :-/
- webmaven 5y ago
  It would help if you added space between the quote and the comment.
  - NikolaNovak 5y ago
    Hmm, I used hacker news block quote system, so the quote should show indented and mono space, whereas my comment is regular font. They appear quite distinct on Firefox on windows and chrome on Android to me. As well there's a blank space line. Can you advise what additional space would've been beneficial?
    - atatatat 5y ago
      Probably a line break for screen readers, or HN readers.
      - NikolaNovak 5y ago
        I'm getting more confused.... There's a double line break between them. That's what stops the block quotes (or at least that what I use to stop the HN block quotes :). It must be something that looks different on our browsers :-/ (there's also an asterisk in front of quotes lines...)
        webmaven 5y ago
        Hmm. I think the combination of asterisks and indentation breaks something. Formatting options: https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc
- s1artibartfast 5y ago
  I actually think this is a positive feature. "the right thing to do" and "increase influence" are nebulous and subjective statements. The corporate language surprisingly conveys more content about how something generates concrete value for AWS.
- 5y ago

8 points by NikolaNovak 5y ago

I wonder if external entities (eg. Elastic) can also successfully use the Leadership Principles to frame disputes with AWS, or if an effort like that would fall flat.

ipsocannibal 5y ago
I think the fact that all Amazon corp employees still sign a non-compete yet there is an LP titled "Strive to be Earth’s Best Employer" whose definition includes "Leaders have a vision for and commitment to their employees’ personal success, whether that be at Amazon or elsewhere." highlights what the company actually values, i.e. internal propaganda and external litigiousness. Good luck quoting LP's to an Amazon lawyer.
- webmaven 5y ago
  One could be extremely generous and assume that the LPs date from before Amazon sprawled into so many market segments (ie. it looks rather different if the noncompete only constrains a former employee from working for other online book retailers). Is there a revision history for the LPs? In fact, have they ever been revised at all?

NikolaNovak 5y ago

This is kind of terrifying: *When I joined AWS, I initially avoided using the LPs in discussions. It didn’t go well. I’d say, “We should contribute to project X because it’s the right thing to do!” Blank stares. “We need to give engineers more time to contribute to project Y so we can influence the project’s direction.” Raised eyebrows. I was getting nowhere. *But then I tried framing my arguments with the LPs and things got much better. I started saying things like, “It’s hard to ‘Obsess over Customers’ and deliver innovation with ‘Frugality’ if we don’t ‘Earn Trust’ with the communities we depend on by making code contributions. This also allows us to ‘Insist on the Highest Standards’ because our contributions put us in a better position to ‘Deliver Results’ and support customers.” *Suddenly, people understood what I meant I can't tell if people "suddenly understood", or are LPs just terrifying sticks managers use to get their way, and once phrased that way nobody dares dissent. The transformation of communication is exactly what I experienced in communist party governing meetings decades ago - who is going to fit their wants into official paradigm better and thus hit with a bigger Big Brother stick :-/

webmaven 5y ago
It would help if you added space between the quote and the comment.
- NikolaNovak 5y ago
  Hmm, I used hacker news block quote system, so the quote should show indented and mono space, whereas my comment is regular font. They appear quite distinct on Firefox on windows and chrome on Android to me. As well there's a blank space line. Can you advise what additional space would've been beneficial?
  - atatatat 5y ago
    Probably a line break for screen readers, or HN readers.
    - NikolaNovak 5y ago
      I'm getting more confused.... There's a double line break between them. That's what stops the block quotes (or at least that what I use to stop the HN block quotes :). It must be something that looks different on our browsers :-/ (there's also an asterisk in front of quotes lines...)
      - webmaven 5y ago
        Hmm. I think the combination of asterisks and indentation breaks something. Formatting options: https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc https://news.ycombinator.com/formatdoc
s1artibartfast 5y ago
I actually think this is a positive feature. "the right thing to do" and "increase influence" are nebulous and subjective statements. The corporate language surprisingly conveys more content about how something generates concrete value for AWS.
5y ago