4 ms·

They make money from having lots of customers, not from having a few obsessed fans. I’ve heard this argument before but the kind of people who are obsessed enou

They make money from having lots of customers, not from having a few obsessed fans. I’ve heard this argument before but the kind of people who are obsessed enough to reverse-engineer old games don’t necessarily even play new games. They’re often fans of the old games and don’t play new games, or they’re people who are interested in reverse engineering. You can release a remaster of an old game, but any reverse-engineered version would be competing with it.

sam0x17 5y ago
That said, using any of these mods requires a valid GTA V license, so OP is right, by killing this project, they are killing their own sales.
- elif 5y ago
  Not if they intend to release remastered versions of their own content, which is likely.
  - sam0x17 5y ago
    It's funny because I bet a GTA V license costs more than whatever they are going to charge for remastered. So they are competing with themselves by offering a cheaper option (if we ignore the fact that a lot of people already own GTA V). I'd be willing to bet a lot of people who want to play the remastered older games haven't played GTA V because they normally wouldn't. So still lost revenue imo.
Crosseye_Jack 5y ago
> You can release a remaster of an old game, but any reverse-engineered version would be competing with it. The Console HD (Well 720p) remasters of the 3D GTAs don't even compete with the original versions with mods imo :-P. They are the ported from the mobile ports of the games, have tons of bugs (Edit: some of the bugs on the 360 stem from RROD issues on consoles that have just not yet RROD'ed), break many of the game mechanics and redender models like trash. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhVdb4K1M-M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhVdb4K1M-M <- Sa comparisons as an example (Note: I know you are on about how mods / RE projects compete with offical releases from a product standpoint, not a quality standpoint. Just wanted to say that RS had their chance to improve the longevity of the older 3D titles and they fucked it up)
- Bishop_ 5y ago
  Porting the mobile port back to PC is one of my biggest complaints with remasters. Final Fantasy on PC went that route and I would honestly rather pay Square $15 for an emulated version then the releases we got.
  - mehlmao 5y ago
    The new 'pixel remaster' games Square is putting out have been great so far. Standardizing on a 16-bit sprite style, new music arrangements, and widescreen support. Only issue is the English font choice, but if you're on PC that's easy enough to fix.
KMnO4 5y ago
Here’s another data point since it’s not always as simple as “remastering”. Nintendo released Super Mario 3D All Stars for a limited purchase window between Sept 2020 and March 2021. Super Mario 64 was included in its original 1996 glory, included a low frame rate, 4:3 aspect ratio, low res textures (iirc they were slightly improved). In fact, Nintendo’s bundle was literally a N64 emulator running on the switch. At the same time, a group of reverse engineers had decompiled the original ROM, converted it to readable C, and added many improvements: 60FPS, widescreen support, high res textures, etc. Most notably, the project allowed them to compile the source code to native Switch architecture, which greatly improved performance and power consumption. Most enthusiasts would agree that the “fan project” is objectively a better experience.
- DubiousPusher 5y ago
  But this flies blatantly in the face of the above comment because it's highly unlikely that the existence of the superior freeware cost Nintendo very many sales. 'Mario 3D All Stars' almost certainly sold wonderfully for them. In fact, I'd guess it's much more likely that the existence of such fan projects increases sales. Because it keep a conversation going about the IP. We can certainly say, an old IP that is not being talked about is essentially not selling.
- floatboth 5y ago
  What was Nintendo's reaction again? https://github.com/n64decomp https://github.com/n64decomp is still up at least. Is Take-Two a more aggressive bully than Nintendo??
dasKrokodil 5y ago
> You can release a remaster of an old game, but any reverse-engineered version would be competing with it. Technically, that's correct of course. But realistically, how many people will build one of these projects from the source code they obtained from GitHub, download the game assets from somewhere and spend a lot of time to make it all work on their machine instead of just buying the remastered version? Some, sure, but I don't see Rockstar losing a lot of money here. If I were in their shoes I would simply hire these developers. And leave their fan projects alone as a sign of good-will and generosity towards the community.
- Crosseye_Jack 5y ago
  > But realistically, how many people will build one of these projects from the source code they obtained from GitHub They released pre-built files. You download the stock version from steam like normal then unpack the pre-built files over the top replacing some of the original files (Just like many of the mods for these games).

sam0x17 5y ago

That said, using any of these mods requires a valid GTA V license, so OP is right, by killing this project, they are killing their own sales.

elif 5y ago
Not if they intend to release remastered versions of their own content, which is likely.
- sam0x17 5y ago
  It's funny because I bet a GTA V license costs more than whatever they are going to charge for remastered. So they are competing with themselves by offering a cheaper option (if we ignore the fact that a lot of people already own GTA V). I'd be willing to bet a lot of people who want to play the remastered older games haven't played GTA V because they normally wouldn't. So still lost revenue imo.

Crosseye_Jack 5y ago

> You can release a remaster of an old game, but any reverse-engineered version would be competing with it. The Console HD (Well 720p) remasters of the 3D GTAs don't even compete with the original versions with mods imo :-P. They are the ported from the mobile ports of the games, have tons of bugs (Edit: some of the bugs on the 360 stem from RROD issues on consoles that have just not yet RROD'ed), break many of the game mechanics and redender models like trash. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhVdb4K1M-M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhVdb4K1M-M <- Sa comparisons as an example (Note: I know you are on about how mods / RE projects compete with offical releases from a product standpoint, not a quality standpoint. Just wanted to say that RS had their chance to improve the longevity of the older 3D titles and they fucked it up)

Bishop_ 5y ago
Porting the mobile port back to PC is one of my biggest complaints with remasters. Final Fantasy on PC went that route and I would honestly rather pay Square $15 for an emulated version then the releases we got.
- mehlmao 5y ago
  The new 'pixel remaster' games Square is putting out have been great so far. Standardizing on a 16-bit sprite style, new music arrangements, and widescreen support. Only issue is the English font choice, but if you're on PC that's easy enough to fix.

KMnO4 5y ago

Here’s another data point since it’s not always as simple as “remastering”. Nintendo released Super Mario 3D All Stars for a limited purchase window between Sept 2020 and March 2021. Super Mario 64 was included in its original 1996 glory, included a low frame rate, 4:3 aspect ratio, low res textures (iirc they were slightly improved). In fact, Nintendo’s bundle was literally a N64 emulator running on the switch. At the same time, a group of reverse engineers had decompiled the original ROM, converted it to readable C, and added many improvements: 60FPS, widescreen support, high res textures, etc. Most notably, the project allowed them to compile the source code to native Switch architecture, which greatly improved performance and power consumption. Most enthusiasts would agree that the “fan project” is objectively a better experience.

DubiousPusher 5y ago
But this flies blatantly in the face of the above comment because it's highly unlikely that the existence of the superior freeware cost Nintendo very many sales. 'Mario 3D All Stars' almost certainly sold wonderfully for them. In fact, I'd guess it's much more likely that the existence of such fan projects increases sales. Because it keep a conversation going about the IP. We can certainly say, an old IP that is not being talked about is essentially not selling.
floatboth 5y ago
What was Nintendo's reaction again? https://github.com/n64decomp https://github.com/n64decomp is still up at least. Is Take-Two a more aggressive bully than Nintendo??

dasKrokodil 5y ago

> You can release a remaster of an old game, but any reverse-engineered version would be competing with it. Technically, that's correct of course. But realistically, how many people will build one of these projects from the source code they obtained from GitHub, download the game assets from somewhere and spend a lot of time to make it all work on their machine instead of just buying the remastered version? Some, sure, but I don't see Rockstar losing a lot of money here. If I were in their shoes I would simply hire these developers. And leave their fan projects alone as a sign of good-will and generosity towards the community.

Crosseye_Jack 5y ago
> But realistically, how many people will build one of these projects from the source code they obtained from GitHub They released pre-built files. You download the stock version from steam like normal then unpack the pre-built files over the top replacing some of the original files (Just like many of the mods for these games).