5 ms·

The fact that anyone would think it is the responsibility of employers to force others to do anything... just amazing. You know that there is a system already i

The fact that anyone would think it is the responsibility of employers to force others to do anything... just amazing. You know that there is a system already in place to do that, right? It is even designed to guard against abuses that businesses aren't equipped for: this is a function of government. If you want to force your vision of the world on others - lobby the government, that is what it is there for.

nickthemagicman 5y ago
I don't agree that the government exists to social engineer society.
- sennight 5y ago
  ... and businesses do?
  - nickthemagicman 5y ago
    Businesses and people can make their own choices and run their lives how they see fit. That's literally the definition of freedom. The government exists to provide a safe framework to protect property and to provide for the common defense for people to live free and make thier own choices.
    - sennight 5y ago
      So in your world there are no seatbelt laws and people are free to drink raw milk? Must be nice.
      - da_big_ghey 5y ago
        Yes, exactly correct at least for me. Two excellent example. These are mostly victimless, if somebody make a bad choice here he is harming himself. Seatbelt law for small children though is maybe okay.
        nickthemagicman 5y ago
        Thanks agreed.
- kthejoker2 5y ago
  That's not what OP said; they said it's society's job to social engineer government. Politics is the allocation of scarce resources; so by definition it exhibits preferences in those allocations, whether the whim of a tyrant, an iron law of utility, or a social contract. Guns versus butter is the toy example from macroeconomics 101, but absolutely government is the net sum of its opportunity costs.
minikites 5y ago
I would love it if the government required vaccination but the last time the government did something controversial, a bunch of looters and thugs stormed the US Capitol and killed several police officers.
- sennight 5y ago
  > ...killed several police officers. lol, nothing has ever not happened more than this. If this isn't a parody representation of somebody who definitely shouldn't have any say about anybody else's health decisions, but an honest reflection of what you really believe... you should really think on how you came to be so badly mislead - and to what end.
  - minikites 5y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_United_States_Capitol_attack#Casualties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_United_States_Capitol_att... >Brian Sicknick, a 42-year-old responding Capitol Police officer, was pepper-sprayed during the riot, and had two thromboembolic strokes the next day, after which he was placed on life support, and soon died. >In the immediate aftermath of the attack, some members of Congress and press reports included these two suicides in the number of reported casualties, for a total of seven deaths. In July, two more members of law enforcement who responded to the attack died by suicide.
    - sennight 5y ago
      Yeah, so murder by... bullying? Guilt tripping? The shamelessness of the lying is impressive.
      - kthejoker2 5y ago
        We can quibble over what is a "murder", but assigning blame of a suicide due to PTSD on the cause of the trauma is not a new concept.
        5y ago
nisegami 5y ago
But a business has a legitimate incentive to want their employees vaccinated. Every Covid infection is lost productivity. And if it goes poorly, that could be an empty seat that now needs to be filled.
- sennight 5y ago
  There is no end to such a line of logic though, except that they can demand anything they want - so long as it can be argued to decrease productivity. You really want that? That maternity leave... I wonder how much work gets done.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    > There is no end to such a line of logic though, except that they can demand anything they want - so long as it can be argued to decrease productivity We carefully place limits for things like race. However those are narrow things. > That maternity leave... I wonder how much work gets done. That is one reason companies don't mandate everything (although it is mandated): companies with good maternity leave policies are more attractive to potential employees. This is more valuable than the time lost.
    - sennight 5y ago
      > We carefully place limits for things like race. Oof, that isn't even close to what the civil rights act was designed to address. Conflating this with that would not go the way you'd likely want. > This is more valuable than the time lost. Something so true that it has to be compelled by law!
      - bluGill 5y ago
        > Something so true that it has to be compelled by law! Just because it is compelled by law doesn't mean it has to be. My company gives me paternity leave which isn't compelled by law, so I'm sure they would give maternity leave even without the law.
  - 5y ago

nickthemagicman 5y ago

I don't agree that the government exists to social engineer society.

sennight 5y ago
... and businesses do?
- nickthemagicman 5y ago
  Businesses and people can make their own choices and run their lives how they see fit. That's literally the definition of freedom. The government exists to provide a safe framework to protect property and to provide for the common defense for people to live free and make thier own choices.
  - sennight 5y ago
    So in your world there are no seatbelt laws and people are free to drink raw milk? Must be nice.
    - da_big_ghey 5y ago
      Yes, exactly correct at least for me. Two excellent example. These are mostly victimless, if somebody make a bad choice here he is harming himself. Seatbelt law for small children though is maybe okay.
      - nickthemagicman 5y ago
        Thanks agreed.
kthejoker2 5y ago
That's not what OP said; they said it's society's job to social engineer government. Politics is the allocation of scarce resources; so by definition it exhibits preferences in those allocations, whether the whim of a tyrant, an iron law of utility, or a social contract. Guns versus butter is the toy example from macroeconomics 101, but absolutely government is the net sum of its opportunity costs.

minikites 5y ago

I would love it if the government required vaccination but the last time the government did something controversial, a bunch of looters and thugs stormed the US Capitol and killed several police officers.

sennight 5y ago
> ...killed several police officers. lol, nothing has ever not happened more than this. If this isn't a parody representation of somebody who definitely shouldn't have any say about anybody else's health decisions, but an honest reflection of what you really believe... you should really think on how you came to be so badly mislead - and to what end.
- minikites 5y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_United_States_Capitol_attack#Casualties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2021_United_States_Capitol_att... >Brian Sicknick, a 42-year-old responding Capitol Police officer, was pepper-sprayed during the riot, and had two thromboembolic strokes the next day, after which he was placed on life support, and soon died. >In the immediate aftermath of the attack, some members of Congress and press reports included these two suicides in the number of reported casualties, for a total of seven deaths. In July, two more members of law enforcement who responded to the attack died by suicide.
  - sennight 5y ago
    Yeah, so murder by... bullying? Guilt tripping? The shamelessness of the lying is impressive.
    - kthejoker2 5y ago
      We can quibble over what is a "murder", but assigning blame of a suicide due to PTSD on the cause of the trauma is not a new concept.
      - 5y ago

nisegami 5y ago

But a business has a legitimate incentive to want their employees vaccinated. Every Covid infection is lost productivity. And if it goes poorly, that could be an empty seat that now needs to be filled.

sennight 5y ago
There is no end to such a line of logic though, except that they can demand anything they want - so long as it can be argued to decrease productivity. You really want that? That maternity leave... I wonder how much work gets done.
- bluGill 5y ago
  > There is no end to such a line of logic though, except that they can demand anything they want - so long as it can be argued to decrease productivity We carefully place limits for things like race. However those are narrow things. > That maternity leave... I wonder how much work gets done. That is one reason companies don't mandate everything (although it is mandated): companies with good maternity leave policies are more attractive to potential employees. This is more valuable than the time lost.
  - sennight 5y ago
    > We carefully place limits for things like race. Oof, that isn't even close to what the civil rights act was designed to address. Conflating this with that would not go the way you'd likely want. > This is more valuable than the time lost. Something so true that it has to be compelled by law!
    - bluGill 5y ago
      > Something so true that it has to be compelled by law! Just because it is compelled by law doesn't mean it has to be. My company gives me paternity leave which isn't compelled by law, so I'm sure they would give maternity leave even without the law.
- 5y ago