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I didn't downvote you, and I don't mind. But I think my usage was correct. I wrote myself as the subject (who) of the sentence and the children the object (who

I didn't downvote you, and I don't mind. But I think my usage was correct. I wrote myself as the subject (who) of the sentence and the children the object (whom). Let me rewrite it like this: I met children. I met Swedish children. I met Swedish children, many of whom were becoming proficient in English by the age of 7 or 8. > I met many fully Swedish kids whom at 7 or 8 years old were already gaining a good level of proficiency in English. I think whom is correct, given that the children are the objects of the sentence. The real error was more that my original construction was a bit awkward.

CRConrad 5y ago
Is your wife tall or short -- are you married to a woman whom is tall, or are you married to a woman whom is short? Hope you can see how horrendous that looks. And yet, she is the object of the sentence! I think that's because it's not just her, but her and her attributes (here: height) that is the subject of the sentence: The whole clause "a woman who is tall" is the object of he sentence "I am married to ...". In Swedish I think it's called inskjuten relativbisats; dunno the grammatical term in English, but a direct translation would be something like inserted related-secondary-clause. Within that secondary clause, the wife is the subject, so "who", not "whom". The fact that the whole clause is the subject of "I am married to..." apparently just doesn't get a grammatical marker of its own. Then, for the difference between > I met Swedish children, many of whom were becoming proficient in English by the age of 7 or 8. and > I met many fully Swedish kids whom at 7 or 8 years old were already gaining a good level of proficiency in English. I absolutely agree that the first is correct, but still contend that the second is not. The structure of the second is perfectly analogous to "I am married to a woman whom is tall"; the first differs... Somehow. I think it's the "many of", which makes it not a grammatically complete clause so it can't have a subject, or something. Or perhaps more specifically, the "of", which moves the following pronoun from object to subject. Like: "As a polygamist, I am married to several women, some of whom are tall"; "As a bigamist, I am married to two women who are tall". Should we go check if Lieberman & Co have any eggcorn of enlightenment to shred on this? :-)
- Wildgoose 5y ago
  The first sentence is definitely correct, the person is the subject talking about themselves and secondarily about meeting children. However to me as a native English speaker (from England) the second sounds wrong. It feels like the Swedish kids are the subject of the sentence, and using "whom" jars slightly. My guess is this may be down to the active way their increasing proficiency was described: "were becoming proficient" in the first sentence sounds passive; whereas "already gaining a good level" sounds active, shifting the emphasis and thereby making them the subject of the sentence.

CRConrad 5y ago

Is your wife tall or short -- are you married to a woman whom is tall, or are you married to a woman whom is short? Hope you can see how horrendous that looks. And yet, she is the object of the sentence! I think that's because it's not just her, but her and her attributes (here: height) that is the subject of the sentence: The whole clause "a woman who is tall" is the object of he sentence "I am married to ...". In Swedish I think it's called inskjuten relativbisats; dunno the grammatical term in English, but a direct translation would be something like inserted related-secondary-clause. Within that secondary clause, the wife is the subject, so "who", not "whom". The fact that the whole clause is the subject of "I am married to..." apparently just doesn't get a grammatical marker of its own. Then, for the difference between > I met Swedish children, many of whom were becoming proficient in English by the age of 7 or 8. and > I met many fully Swedish kids whom at 7 or 8 years old were already gaining a good level of proficiency in English. I absolutely agree that the first is correct, but still contend that the second is not. The structure of the second is perfectly analogous to "I am married to a woman whom is tall"; the first differs... Somehow. I think it's the "many of", which makes it not a grammatically complete clause so it can't have a subject, or something. Or perhaps more specifically, the "of", which moves the following pronoun from object to subject. Like: "As a polygamist, I am married to several women, some of whom are tall"; "As a bigamist, I am married to two women who are tall". Should we go check if Lieberman & Co have any eggcorn of enlightenment to shred on this? :-)

Wildgoose 5y ago
The first sentence is definitely correct, the person is the subject talking about themselves and secondarily about meeting children. However to me as a native English speaker (from England) the second sounds wrong. It feels like the Swedish kids are the subject of the sentence, and using "whom" jars slightly. My guess is this may be down to the active way their increasing proficiency was described: "were becoming proficient" in the first sentence sounds passive; whereas "already gaining a good level" sounds active, shifting the emphasis and thereby making them the subject of the sentence.