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To expand: the web gave us a mindset where developers and designers dictate to everyone else how their app will look. Beforehand, that was up to the OS, the win

To expand: the web gave us a mindset where developers and designers dictate to everyone else how their app will look. Beforehand, that was up to the OS, the windowing system and/or the user. Now, it’s fair to ask that problems with appearances be reported to the intermediate themers first, but this invasion of the web mindset is profoundly anti-user and anti-community.

Jach 5y ago
It wasn't even really until the modern web that this happened; the browser is called the User Agent because it's acting on behalf of the user, not the website. CSS Zen Garden showed what you could do just by changing CSS. Even today though you can still do what you want to a lot of sites, from adblocking, to restyling with things like Stylus, or full custom JS with Greasemonkey/Tampermonkey. It's the OS apps that are less customizable, but I don't want them to become even less so.
orbital-decay 5y ago
Was it, really? When Microsoft implemented arbitrary shapes for windows, Windows apps started to come in all shapes, sizes, and with custom theming engines. Music players were particularly prone to this - not even talking about apps like Sonique, but Microsoft's very own Windows Media Player was like that. So no, it wasn't web; the dominating desktop OS always lacked the UI consistency.
- kirb 5y ago
  Adding onto your point, I’m reminded of the video “Chain of Fools”, where a machine is upgraded from Windows 1.0 all the way through to Windows 8. Once he reaches XP, the theme he configured back in one of the first Windows versions just disappears and gets overridden with XP’s defaults. Then it happens again and again for every version since then, despite the guy changing the theme back to his custom one before each upgrade. https://youtu.be/vPnehDhGa14 https://youtu.be/vPnehDhGa14 So the phenomenon really started with Microsoft themselves. Sure, the more muted dialog backgrounds and vibrant foreground elements introduced since XP look far better than the Win95-esque greys, but I’m sure people who created their own themes (probably due to disability like color blindness) like their colors better than Microsoft’s.

Jach 5y ago

It wasn't even really until the modern web that this happened; the browser is called the User Agent because it's acting on behalf of the user, not the website. CSS Zen Garden showed what you could do just by changing CSS. Even today though you can still do what you want to a lot of sites, from adblocking, to restyling with things like Stylus, or full custom JS with Greasemonkey/Tampermonkey. It's the OS apps that are less customizable, but I don't want them to become even less so.

orbital-decay 5y ago

Was it, really? When Microsoft implemented arbitrary shapes for windows, Windows apps started to come in all shapes, sizes, and with custom theming engines. Music players were particularly prone to this - not even talking about apps like Sonique, but Microsoft's very own Windows Media Player was like that. So no, it wasn't web; the dominating desktop OS always lacked the UI consistency.

kirb 5y ago
Adding onto your point, I’m reminded of the video “Chain of Fools”, where a machine is upgraded from Windows 1.0 all the way through to Windows 8. Once he reaches XP, the theme he configured back in one of the first Windows versions just disappears and gets overridden with XP’s defaults. Then it happens again and again for every version since then, despite the guy changing the theme back to his custom one before each upgrade. https://youtu.be/vPnehDhGa14 https://youtu.be/vPnehDhGa14 So the phenomenon really started with Microsoft themselves. Sure, the more muted dialog backgrounds and vibrant foreground elements introduced since XP look far better than the Win95-esque greys, but I’m sure people who created their own themes (probably due to disability like color blindness) like their colors better than Microsoft’s.