4 ms·

This is the antithesis of open source and the things that drew me to Linux in the 90s and 00s

dheera 5y ago
Exactly. WTF? If I release an open source app I would LOVE for you to theme it, mod it to your heart's content, and have a party. Send me a pull request if you come up with something cool looking.
- eropple 5y ago
  >This is aimed at distributions breaking apps by default, not tinkerers playing with their own setup. The objection here is that distributions are building incompatible system themes that break standard GNOME expectations and make applications more confusing for users. They're not talking about individuals messing with their systems.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago
    If I pick eOS because I like its look and feel, I sure hope eOS attempts to make that look and feel as consistent across apps as possible.
    - eropple 5y ago
      Then eOS should be fielding look-and-feel bugs for the stuff that they changed, shouldn't they?
      - fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago
        Sure, and my experience is that most distros do.
- emaro 5y ago
  Of course. If someone themes your app. But if distro xy creates a shiny new look that breaks your app, you probably are not so happy.
  - hexa22 5y ago
    Especially when you have a wave of users complaining to you about it being broken or saying your app is bad but the broke part was a downstream patch.
fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago
To expand: the web gave us a mindset where developers and designers dictate to everyone else how their app will look. Beforehand, that was up to the OS, the windowing system and/or the user. Now, it’s fair to ask that problems with appearances be reported to the intermediate themers first, but this invasion of the web mindset is profoundly anti-user and anti-community.
- Jach 5y ago
  It wasn't even really until the modern web that this happened; the browser is called the User Agent because it's acting on behalf of the user, not the website. CSS Zen Garden showed what you could do just by changing CSS. Even today though you can still do what you want to a lot of sites, from adblocking, to restyling with things like Stylus, or full custom JS with Greasemonkey/Tampermonkey. It's the OS apps that are less customizable, but I don't want them to become even less so.
- orbital-decay 5y ago
  Was it, really? When Microsoft implemented arbitrary shapes for windows, Windows apps started to come in all shapes, sizes, and with custom theming engines. Music players were particularly prone to this - not even talking about apps like Sonique, but Microsoft's very own Windows Media Player was like that. So no, it wasn't web; the dominating desktop OS always lacked the UI consistency.
  - kirb 5y ago
    Adding onto your point, I’m reminded of the video “Chain of Fools”, where a machine is upgraded from Windows 1.0 all the way through to Windows 8. Once he reaches XP, the theme he configured back in one of the first Windows versions just disappears and gets overridden with XP’s defaults. Then it happens again and again for every version since then, despite the guy changing the theme back to his custom one before each upgrade. https://youtu.be/vPnehDhGa14 https://youtu.be/vPnehDhGa14 So the phenomenon really started with Microsoft themselves. Sure, the more muted dialog backgrounds and vibrant foreground elements introduced since XP look far better than the Win95-esque greys, but I’m sure people who created their own themes (probably due to disability like color blindness) like their colors better than Microsoft’s.

Exactly. WTF? If I release an open source app I would LOVE for you to theme it, mod it to your heart's content, and have a party. Send me a pull request if you come up with something cool looking.

eropple 5y ago
>This is aimed at distributions breaking apps by default, not tinkerers playing with their own setup. The objection here is that distributions are building incompatible system themes that break standard GNOME expectations and make applications more confusing for users. They're not talking about individuals messing with their systems.
- fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago
  If I pick eOS because I like its look and feel, I sure hope eOS attempts to make that look and feel as consistent across apps as possible.
  - eropple 5y ago
    Then eOS should be fielding look-and-feel bugs for the stuff that they changed, shouldn't they?
    - fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago
      Sure, and my experience is that most distros do.
emaro 5y ago
Of course. If someone themes your app. But if distro xy creates a shiny new look that breaks your app, you probably are not so happy.
- hexa22 5y ago
  Especially when you have a wave of users complaining to you about it being broken or saying your app is bad but the broke part was a downstream patch.

fiddlerwoaroof 5y ago

To expand: the web gave us a mindset where developers and designers dictate to everyone else how their app will look. Beforehand, that was up to the OS, the windowing system and/or the user. Now, it’s fair to ask that problems with appearances be reported to the intermediate themers first, but this invasion of the web mindset is profoundly anti-user and anti-community.

Jach 5y ago
It wasn't even really until the modern web that this happened; the browser is called the User Agent because it's acting on behalf of the user, not the website. CSS Zen Garden showed what you could do just by changing CSS. Even today though you can still do what you want to a lot of sites, from adblocking, to restyling with things like Stylus, or full custom JS with Greasemonkey/Tampermonkey. It's the OS apps that are less customizable, but I don't want them to become even less so.
orbital-decay 5y ago
Was it, really? When Microsoft implemented arbitrary shapes for windows, Windows apps started to come in all shapes, sizes, and with custom theming engines. Music players were particularly prone to this - not even talking about apps like Sonique, but Microsoft's very own Windows Media Player was like that. So no, it wasn't web; the dominating desktop OS always lacked the UI consistency.
- kirb 5y ago
  Adding onto your point, I’m reminded of the video “Chain of Fools”, where a machine is upgraded from Windows 1.0 all the way through to Windows 8. Once he reaches XP, the theme he configured back in one of the first Windows versions just disappears and gets overridden with XP’s defaults. Then it happens again and again for every version since then, despite the guy changing the theme back to his custom one before each upgrade. https://youtu.be/vPnehDhGa14 https://youtu.be/vPnehDhGa14 So the phenomenon really started with Microsoft themselves. Sure, the more muted dialog backgrounds and vibrant foreground elements introduced since XP look far better than the Win95-esque greys, but I’m sure people who created their own themes (probably due to disability like color blindness) like their colors better than Microsoft’s.