5 ms·

Don't know about other countries, but even if Putin did not rig presidential elections (which he does), he'd still be winning overwhelming majorities. He enjoys

by m0zg 5y ago

Don't know about other countries, but even if Putin did not rig presidential elections (which he does), he'd still be winning overwhelming majorities. He enjoys strong popular support. So we can quibble about whether rigging an election you'd win anyway is a departure from "democracy" (whatever that means), but he's still a democratically elected leader, as well as the best leader Russia had in the last hundred years. PS. I always vote against him every time he runs. I think there should be term limits, and I didn't "get" him early on. His results are hard to argue against. At a very minimum (and unlike in the US) the oligarchs don't overtly own the parliament (duma) anymore, and the standard of living has improved massively.

crazy_horse 5y ago
He enjoys popular support partially because people feel like there's no point and because he poisons his political opponents.
- m0zg 5y ago
  Navalny is a Soros puppet and a joke in Russia. He's not an "opponent" to Putin in any way. It's also up for debate whether he was actually poisoned.
  - gizmo385 5y ago
    A Soros puppet? Please explain. Let's get some sources for this, whatever the hell a "Soros puppet" actually means beyond dogwhistling
    - smt88 5y ago
      It's a smear perpetuated by Putin: https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/08/22/turns-out-you-cant-trust-russian-hackers-anymore/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/08/22/turns-out-you-cant-trus...
    - m0zg 5y ago
      "Soros" figuratively speaking, although I would not be surprised - good ol' George tends to have his fingers in a lot of pies worldwide, and this is a tasty one. Navalny had to declare himself and his fund as "foreign agent" because he took funding from abroad. Which is OK under Russian law, as long as you always state you're a foreign agent (this is required by law if someone writes about you in the news for example). It'd be strange, I think you'll agree, to run for the top political office in the country after doing that. But even if he did run, he would not get anything above single digit percentage of support, basically some particularly liberal part of liberal elite in Moscow and Saint Petersburg. I think a lot of people (myself included) sympathise with his anti-corruption work, even though it has zero effect. But even the sympathizers know that politically he has zero prospects in any high level election there even if everything was fair and square (which it is not). The West, on the other hand, is gaslit into believing that he's Putin's arch-nemesis or something, and Putin is losing any sleep over his existence or activity. As they say in Russia: as a dog barks, the caravan goes on. Here's another thing people in the West don't know about him: he's a nationalist and a xenophobe (he shares that with most Russian people, but he's considerably more extreme in his views), but I wonder if his curators from USAID know that. Here he is in 2011 speaking from the stage at a nationalist Russian March: https://youtu.be/BYMbYwL8sQA?t=511 https://youtu.be/BYMbYwL8sQA?t=511. To US folks, this is like Charlottesville, but without the opposing side. "Jews will not replace us" and everything. Plenty of "skinheads" in the crowd. You only don't see swastikas there because they're illegal to show in Russia. So TL;DR: Navalny is a complicated man at best. And he's not, and will never be Putin's "rival".
sam_lowry_ 5y ago
> He enjoys strong popular support. He us working hard to make you believe that.
- m0zg 5y ago
  I actually have quite a few friends and family there. They all support him, some begrudgingly (as in "we know he's a crook and a thief, but comparatively speaking, he's doing a pretty good job"), some enthusiastically. So between first hand knowledge and Western propaganda, I think it's prudent to choose first hand knowledge, at least for me, who has it.
  - sam_lowry_ 5y ago
    I have friends and family in Russia and their attitude to Putin ranges from active ignorance to hatred. Everyone agrees that he serves as a bad example to follow. So yes, first hand knowledge may fail you.
    - m0zg 5y ago
      They're probably in Moscow or something. The vast majority of my folks aren't. Moscow and Saint Petersburg are only 10% of Russia's population - they don't matter much when it comes to electing the president.

by m0zg 5y ago

crazy_horse 5y ago

He enjoys popular support partially because people feel like there's no point and because he poisons his political opponents.

m0zg 5y ago
Navalny is a Soros puppet and a joke in Russia. He's not an "opponent" to Putin in any way. It's also up for debate whether he was actually poisoned.
- gizmo385 5y ago
  A Soros puppet? Please explain. Let's get some sources for this, whatever the hell a "Soros puppet" actually means beyond dogwhistling
  - smt88 5y ago
    It's a smear perpetuated by Putin: https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/08/22/turns-out-you-cant-trust-russian-hackers-anymore/ https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/08/22/turns-out-you-cant-trus...
  - m0zg 5y ago
    "Soros" figuratively speaking, although I would not be surprised - good ol' George tends to have his fingers in a lot of pies worldwide, and this is a tasty one. Navalny had to declare himself and his fund as "foreign agent" because he took funding from abroad. Which is OK under Russian law, as long as you always state you're a foreign agent (this is required by law if someone writes about you in the news for example). It'd be strange, I think you'll agree, to run for the top political office in the country after doing that. But even if he did run, he would not get anything above single digit percentage of support, basically some particularly liberal part of liberal elite in Moscow and Saint Petersburg. I think a lot of people (myself included) sympathise with his anti-corruption work, even though it has zero effect. But even the sympathizers know that politically he has zero prospects in any high level election there even if everything was fair and square (which it is not). The West, on the other hand, is gaslit into believing that he's Putin's arch-nemesis or something, and Putin is losing any sleep over his existence or activity. As they say in Russia: as a dog barks, the caravan goes on. Here's another thing people in the West don't know about him: he's a nationalist and a xenophobe (he shares that with most Russian people, but he's considerably more extreme in his views), but I wonder if his curators from USAID know that. Here he is in 2011 speaking from the stage at a nationalist Russian March: https://youtu.be/BYMbYwL8sQA?t=511 https://youtu.be/BYMbYwL8sQA?t=511. To US folks, this is like Charlottesville, but without the opposing side. "Jews will not replace us" and everything. Plenty of "skinheads" in the crowd. You only don't see swastikas there because they're illegal to show in Russia. So TL;DR: Navalny is a complicated man at best. And he's not, and will never be Putin's "rival".

sam_lowry_ 5y ago

> He enjoys strong popular support. He us working hard to make you believe that.

m0zg 5y ago
I actually have quite a few friends and family there. They all support him, some begrudgingly (as in "we know he's a crook and a thief, but comparatively speaking, he's doing a pretty good job"), some enthusiastically. So between first hand knowledge and Western propaganda, I think it's prudent to choose first hand knowledge, at least for me, who has it.
- sam_lowry_ 5y ago
  I have friends and family in Russia and their attitude to Putin ranges from active ignorance to hatred. Everyone agrees that he serves as a bad example to follow. So yes, first hand knowledge may fail you.
  - m0zg 5y ago
    They're probably in Moscow or something. The vast majority of my folks aren't. Moscow and Saint Petersburg are only 10% of Russia's population - they don't matter much when it comes to electing the president.