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I guess that explains why McMaster's price for N95 masks never really changed, they were just unavailable. Although on Amazon it was pretty wild to watch -- I

I guess that explains why McMaster's price for N95 masks never really changed, they were just unavailable. Although on Amazon it was pretty wild to watch -- I guess if they're not technically N95 masks they can take the price as high as they want since they aren't actually recommended for protecting against viruses. But actual certified N95 masks just became unavailable instead of having high prices.

hguant 5y ago
>But actual certified N95 masks just became unavailable instead of having high prices. Part of that is because 3M has been incredibly good about not raising their prices, and has been very clear to its distributors that they're not ok with them raising the prices. Of course this does nothing to stop the hoarders/private sales jacking up prices on eBay...
Johnny555 5y ago
Home Depot has 3M N95 masks from time to time both in-store and for delivery, I picked up a 10 pack for a home improvement project a month or so ago. I only needed a few, so sent the rest to my immune compromised sibling.
ransom1538 5y ago
Just FYI! You want P100, not N95. People in ERs use P100 with a surgical mask ontop. ALSO! 3M is the only trusted supplier (it is hard to make P100s). Why did n95 get all the hype?? https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v000057510/ https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v000057510/
- Johnny555 5y ago
  P100's are significantly harder to breath in, and I'd question whether the typical user has a good enough fit to actually get the full filtering performance. I can't speak for ER healthcare workers, but I know from experience that hospital surgical nurses wear N95 masks. I'm not sure why anyone in healthcare would need a P* mask, since they aren't generally exposed to oil. If I really thought I needed a P100 mask, I'd get a rubber respirator with screw on filters -- they are easier to fit, and the dual respirators have more surface area for easier breathing.
  - ransom1538 5y ago
    The number in a rating tells you the minimum amount of airborne challenge particles the mask protects against: an N95 mask keeps out at least 95% of particles but isn’t oil resistant, and a P100 mask is oil proof while protecting the wearer from at least 99.8% of particles. (AKA just a better mask). It's a real bummer to hear such comment - why spread this? P100 Approved, NIOSH's highest rated filtration efficiency in a filtering facepiece respirator. It is just a higher rating. "P100's are significantly harder to breath in" <- not at all! You should try one - they breath great. They are meant for workers to wear all day. They even have a nice leather like seal making it easier to have proper seal. Also! They are perfect for a quick trip to the grocery store or standing on a bus. ALSO! The screw on versions are great but they are MUCH heavier and impossible to put in a pocket so they are not practical at all. Nothing about your comment was accurate :(
    - Johnny555 5y ago
      It's a real bummer to hear such comment - why spread this? Why spread what? You're the one that claimed that medical workers all use oil resistant P100 masks, while what they overwhelmingly use is N95's (the ones that are medical grade are ASTM certified to be water/fluid resistant, not oil resistant). In the hospital I worked at, if staff needed better filtration than that N95 could provide, they used full face, powered respirators. (positive pressure means a perfect seal is less critical, and it provides eye protection). Here's 3M's healthcare line of healthcare masks, they are all N95: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/c/ppe/respiratory-protection/healthcare-masks/i/health-care/?n=8705579 https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/c/ppe/respiratory-protection/h...
  - lobocinza 5y ago
    I don't know what a P100 is but I don't find a N99 more difficult to breathe than a N95 (but I do feel that I have to exert more force/pressure when breathing). I use it to cycle and it's ignorable when cycling casually but discomfortable when going for performance. Anedoctally I don't find the extra effort to breathe to be a problem but just the saturated & hot air. So if I were to exhale each time with the mask of and inhale if it on it wouldn't be a problem. PS. I use masks w/ valves and those without one worsen this issue.
geomark 5y ago
That's a good demonstration of the results that come from price controls.
WalterBright 5y ago
> McMaster's price for N95 masks never really changed, they were just unavailable. Of course. The choices are: 1. high price, and availability 2. same price, and none available Americans seem to always choose #2.
- emn13 5y ago
  High price in these kind of events rarely increases availability - after all, it takes time to increase production or ship more. If high price appears to increase availability, I suspect that's largely because you're pricing people out of the product. (A slight price increase to counterbalance the overheads of realigning supply lines might be reasonable, but whether that's significant compared to the normal profit margin - probably situational?) As such, consumers are right to feel vindictive when companies do try and engage in that kind of profiteering; and that social dynamic is one of the ways to keep the market healthy when there are many more consumers than producers - effectively a kind of collective bargaining - at least, if the producer is sensitive to that kind of thing. Sometimes the profit will be worth it and they'll just shrug it off, of course. But in particular, we should be careful not to support a narrative that empathizes with profiteering, because such empathy (absurd as it is anyhow for a corporation) undermines the shared social frustration needed for the implicit collective bargaining that's happening with these kind of social events. If everybody believes that it's just natural for a company to seek profit above all else, and crucially thus accepting that it's OK for them to screw over the consumer, then it's going to be hard to build momentum for any backlash, and thus hard to improve the negotiating position of the consumer. Even from a radically capitalist standpoint that's bad, because capitalism works best (is most efficient) in transparent markets where all participants have equal power - and since that's never the reality, it's necessary to counterbalances against larger market participants, or those with more information.
  - Tenoke 5y ago
    >High price in these kind of events rarely increases availability - after all, it takes time to increase production or ship more. If something is an issue for just 1-2 days maybe. If it's more then it seems that should be enough to get at least some express shipments if there was profit to be made.

hguant 5y ago

>But actual certified N95 masks just became unavailable instead of having high prices. Part of that is because 3M has been incredibly good about not raising their prices, and has been very clear to its distributors that they're not ok with them raising the prices. Of course this does nothing to stop the hoarders/private sales jacking up prices on eBay...

Johnny555 5y ago

Home Depot has 3M N95 masks from time to time both in-store and for delivery, I picked up a 10 pack for a home improvement project a month or so ago. I only needed a few, so sent the rest to my immune compromised sibling.

ransom1538 5y ago

Just FYI! You want P100, not N95. People in ERs use P100 with a surgical mask ontop. ALSO! 3M is the only trusted supplier (it is hard to make P100s). Why did n95 get all the hype?? https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v000057510/ https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/v000057510/

Johnny555 5y ago
P100's are significantly harder to breath in, and I'd question whether the typical user has a good enough fit to actually get the full filtering performance. I can't speak for ER healthcare workers, but I know from experience that hospital surgical nurses wear N95 masks. I'm not sure why anyone in healthcare would need a P* mask, since they aren't generally exposed to oil. If I really thought I needed a P100 mask, I'd get a rubber respirator with screw on filters -- they are easier to fit, and the dual respirators have more surface area for easier breathing.
- ransom1538 5y ago
  The number in a rating tells you the minimum amount of airborne challenge particles the mask protects against: an N95 mask keeps out at least 95% of particles but isn’t oil resistant, and a P100 mask is oil proof while protecting the wearer from at least 99.8% of particles. (AKA just a better mask). It's a real bummer to hear such comment - why spread this? P100 Approved, NIOSH's highest rated filtration efficiency in a filtering facepiece respirator. It is just a higher rating. "P100's are significantly harder to breath in" <- not at all! You should try one - they breath great. They are meant for workers to wear all day. They even have a nice leather like seal making it easier to have proper seal. Also! They are perfect for a quick trip to the grocery store or standing on a bus. ALSO! The screw on versions are great but they are MUCH heavier and impossible to put in a pocket so they are not practical at all. Nothing about your comment was accurate :(
  - Johnny555 5y ago
    It's a real bummer to hear such comment - why spread this? Why spread what? You're the one that claimed that medical workers all use oil resistant P100 masks, while what they overwhelmingly use is N95's (the ones that are medical grade are ASTM certified to be water/fluid resistant, not oil resistant). In the hospital I worked at, if staff needed better filtration than that N95 could provide, they used full face, powered respirators. (positive pressure means a perfect seal is less critical, and it provides eye protection). Here's 3M's healthcare line of healthcare masks, they are all N95: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/c/ppe/respiratory-protection/healthcare-masks/i/health-care/?n=8705579 https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/c/ppe/respiratory-protection/h...
- lobocinza 5y ago
  I don't know what a P100 is but I don't find a N99 more difficult to breathe than a N95 (but I do feel that I have to exert more force/pressure when breathing). I use it to cycle and it's ignorable when cycling casually but discomfortable when going for performance. Anedoctally I don't find the extra effort to breathe to be a problem but just the saturated & hot air. So if I were to exhale each time with the mask of and inhale if it on it wouldn't be a problem. PS. I use masks w/ valves and those without one worsen this issue.

geomark 5y ago

That's a good demonstration of the results that come from price controls.

WalterBright 5y ago

> McMaster's price for N95 masks never really changed, they were just unavailable. Of course. The choices are: 1. high price, and availability 2. same price, and none available Americans seem to always choose #2.

emn13 5y ago
High price in these kind of events rarely increases availability - after all, it takes time to increase production or ship more. If high price appears to increase availability, I suspect that's largely because you're pricing people out of the product. (A slight price increase to counterbalance the overheads of realigning supply lines might be reasonable, but whether that's significant compared to the normal profit margin - probably situational?) As such, consumers are right to feel vindictive when companies do try and engage in that kind of profiteering; and that social dynamic is one of the ways to keep the market healthy when there are many more consumers than producers - effectively a kind of collective bargaining - at least, if the producer is sensitive to that kind of thing. Sometimes the profit will be worth it and they'll just shrug it off, of course. But in particular, we should be careful not to support a narrative that empathizes with profiteering, because such empathy (absurd as it is anyhow for a corporation) undermines the shared social frustration needed for the implicit collective bargaining that's happening with these kind of social events. If everybody believes that it's just natural for a company to seek profit above all else, and crucially thus accepting that it's OK for them to screw over the consumer, then it's going to be hard to build momentum for any backlash, and thus hard to improve the negotiating position of the consumer. Even from a radically capitalist standpoint that's bad, because capitalism works best (is most efficient) in transparent markets where all participants have equal power - and since that's never the reality, it's necessary to counterbalances against larger market participants, or those with more information.
- Tenoke 5y ago
  >High price in these kind of events rarely increases availability - after all, it takes time to increase production or ship more. If something is an issue for just 1-2 days maybe. If it's more then it seems that should be enough to get at least some express shipments if there was profit to be made.