6 ms·

Maybe it’s just me, but one email or IM response that really comes off that way is someone just replying with “Ok” and nothing else.

kayodelycaon 5y ago
Or worse: “Ok.” A period can completely change the meaning of a message. One of the managers in my company has the bad habit of making speech to text replies to everything. The end result is: “Okay, Kayodé. Thanks.” Those replies do not help my anxiety disorder. XD
- taxcoder 5y ago
  Honest question. What offense do I cause by using punctuation? The lack of it bothers me - it seems sloppy. I tend to stay away from one word replies, and if I need to confirm use 10-4 or wilco. Are either of those offensive?
  - kayodelycaon 5y ago
    It depends on the message. A longer form message with punctuation is fine. In short messages, the period is read as an aggressive sudden stop.
    - SquareWheel 5y ago
      I read it completely differently. I see a sentence without punctuation as disinterested, as if they don't even bother to complete the sentence. Maybe acceptable in an IM, but not an email.
    - taxcoder 5y ago
      Thanks for the response. As SquareWheel also commented, the lack of punctuation seems disinterested or dismissive to me. I suppose my criticism of lack of punctuation is not different than others criticism of its inclusion.
  - MauranKilom 5y ago
    "Ok" is ever more informal than "Ok." The decision whether or not to add the period is of course not always a matter of trying to sound more assertive, but in a three character message that potential cue will necessarily be "scaled up".
  - mananaysiempre 5y ago
    I can’t say anything useful about short-form email (I have never been comfortable with it, to be honest), but in IM the termination requirement feels to be already satisfied by the built-in separation between messages—in longer messages, I frequently end up using periods as statement separators rather than terminators. The only reason to use a final period, then, becomes to attach a feeling of additional abruptness or finality to the last sentence, which easily reads as (passive-)aggressive or dismissive. (I’m not saying “offensive” as that’s really more about the perception of the recipient, but these two are about the intent of the originator.)
  - strken 5y ago
    The conventions for formal messaging and informal messaging are different, and punctuation is a contextual marker for formality. Receiving a reply to a physical letter that read, on company letterhead and with a physical signature Taxcoder, regarding your proposed changes, Ok. Sincerely, Jim Bossman would be a bit alarming, because it's clear that the letter is a very formal one, but it deliberately omits everything you'd normally put in a letter. If you instead found your proposal mailed back to you with OK - Jim Bossman written on the bottom in red pen, you wouldn't be at all worried, although depending on the context you might be insulted by the informality. I think if a message without punctuation seems sloppy, the situation is formal enough to write a full sentence or paragraph. The combination of little to no feedback and attention to detail is what worries people.
- AnimalMuppet 5y ago
  How can a period completely change the meaning of a message? Especially a message that is just "Ok", with or without the period?
- thaumasiotes 5y ago
  > A period can completely change the meaning of a message. That's in your mind, unless you think your manager is one of the people who believes in Aggressive Periods. I've read the claim that periods are fraught with meaning many times, and yet I've never actually seen one used that way. Unless, of course, you meant something more like "OK。。。".
  - elliekelly 5y ago
    Maybe you just haven’t realized it’s being used that way? Examples: “It’s fine!” (It is indeed fine.) “It’s fine.” (It’s not at all fine.) “K, thanks” (Got it, thanks) “K. Thanks.” (Cool. Thanks for nothing.) “Bye” (See you later) “Bye.” (Fuck off)
    - thaumasiotes 5y ago
      No, I assure you that, if there are peer groups that use periods that way, I am not part of any of them. And it's a mistake to assume that your manager must follow the same weird typographical conventions that you do. Odds are he's never heard of them.
      - elliekelly 5y ago
        It’s a pretty well documented/discussed aspect of text-based digital communication. Kind of like how text written in all caps is interpreted as “shouting”. I’m honestly shocked there are HN users who are unaware of the tone implications. Period. Full Stop. Point. Whatever It’s Called, It’s Going Out of Style (2016): https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/10/world/europe/period-full-stop-point-whatever-its-called-millennials-arent-using-it.html?_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/10/world/europe/period-full-... The Period Is Pissed (2013): https://newrepublic.com/article/115726/period-our-simplest-punctuation-mark-has-become-sign-anger https://newrepublic.com/article/115726/period-our-simplest-p... Stop. Using. Periods. Period. (2016): https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/13/stop-using-periods-period-2/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/13/stop-... The Secret Emotional Lives of 5 Punctuation Marks (2014): https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/59060/secret-emotional-lives-5-punctuation-marks https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/59060/secret-emotional-l... Why Does Using a Period in a Text Message Make You Sound Angry or Insincere? (2016): https://theconversation.com/why-does-using-a-period-in-a-text-message-make-you-sound-insincere-or-angry-61792 https://theconversation.com/why-does-using-a-period-in-a-tex... Yes. A Study Shows that Ending Your Texts with a Period Makes You Sound Like an Asshole (2016): https://www.mic.com/articles/130042/ending-your-texts-with-a-period-makes-you-sound-angry https://www.mic.com/articles/130042/ending-your-texts-with-a...
- WalterBright 5y ago
  > Or worse: “Ok.” A period can completely change the meaning of a message. I must have offended legions of people. I suppose "Ack" (short for Acknowledged) is also offensive?
  - desmosxxx 5y ago
    not offensive but it can be read as dismissive. sounds good to me or will do seem better, but tbh chat generally sucks and we all just have to learn to not read too much into it.
  - nfw2 5y ago
    My last manager would frequently message me "Ack!" after I would bring up some work concern, and until just now I thought he was making the exasperated sound from the Cathy comic strip.
    - sildur 5y ago
      Or the sound the Martians from Mars Attacks made.
  - beaconstudios 5y ago
    by abbreviating, it seems like you value your own time higher than the other person, like their message is not worth writing a whole word in response. At least, that's how I might feel about it. That and it feels a bit like that sketch in The Office where Kevin drops all his interstitial words for "efficiency" and ends up sounding brain damaged. Obviously that's not the intent, but as per the article, work-related IMs and emails can heighten negative perception and such.
    - WalterBright 5y ago
      ACK (06) is ASCII for Acknowledge. "In data networking, telecommunications, and computer buses, an acknowledgment (ACK) is a signal that is passed between communicating processes, computers, or devices to signify acknowledgment, or receipt of message, as part of a communications protocol."
- _-david-_ 5y ago
  How does a period change the meaning?
  - buttercraft 5y ago
    Think. About. It.
    - _-david-_ 5y ago
      Entirely different than just "OK" vs "OK.".
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
sovok_x 5y ago
No, from my experience, many people consider short reply to a long message a sort of dismissal of their effort, and if it uses slang it seems doubly offensive.
- thatsamonad 5y ago
  Right. My sense is it’s a dismissive and/or low effort response, especially to any sort of substantive message. But I’m also an anxious person so I’m likely reading into it too much. My typical reply if I want to quickly acknowledge something is, “Got it. Thank you!”
orev 5y ago
“Ok” to me is just acknowledgement of the message. It should not be seen as negative, just neutral.
- elliekelly 5y ago
  Whether or not it should be seen as neutral, it usually isn’t: https://www.insidehook.com/article/advice/the-difference-between-texting-k-ok-kk-explained https://www.insidehook.com/article/advice/the-difference-bet...
rdtsc 5y ago
I think it all depends on how that person usually responds, both in-person, and in written communication. If they are usually chatty and like to over-explain, and sprinkle emojis everywhere, and then, to this one particular message, they respond with just "ok.", then there could be something to it. However, if they are simply terse and serious most of the time anyway, then they are just being themselves. I would be nice if they were chattier, but it's just their usual personality.

kayodelycaon 5y ago

Or worse: “Ok.” A period can completely change the meaning of a message. One of the managers in my company has the bad habit of making speech to text replies to everything. The end result is: “Okay, Kayodé. Thanks.” Those replies do not help my anxiety disorder. XD

taxcoder 5y ago
Honest question. What offense do I cause by using punctuation? The lack of it bothers me - it seems sloppy. I tend to stay away from one word replies, and if I need to confirm use 10-4 or wilco. Are either of those offensive?
- kayodelycaon 5y ago
  It depends on the message. A longer form message with punctuation is fine. In short messages, the period is read as an aggressive sudden stop.
  - SquareWheel 5y ago
    I read it completely differently. I see a sentence without punctuation as disinterested, as if they don't even bother to complete the sentence. Maybe acceptable in an IM, but not an email.
  - taxcoder 5y ago
    Thanks for the response. As SquareWheel also commented, the lack of punctuation seems disinterested or dismissive to me. I suppose my criticism of lack of punctuation is not different than others criticism of its inclusion.
- MauranKilom 5y ago
  "Ok" is ever more informal than "Ok." The decision whether or not to add the period is of course not always a matter of trying to sound more assertive, but in a three character message that potential cue will necessarily be "scaled up".
- mananaysiempre 5y ago
  I can’t say anything useful about short-form email (I have never been comfortable with it, to be honest), but in IM the termination requirement feels to be already satisfied by the built-in separation between messages—in longer messages, I frequently end up using periods as statement separators rather than terminators. The only reason to use a final period, then, becomes to attach a feeling of additional abruptness or finality to the last sentence, which easily reads as (passive-)aggressive or dismissive. (I’m not saying “offensive” as that’s really more about the perception of the recipient, but these two are about the intent of the originator.)
- strken 5y ago
  The conventions for formal messaging and informal messaging are different, and punctuation is a contextual marker for formality. Receiving a reply to a physical letter that read, on company letterhead and with a physical signature Taxcoder, regarding your proposed changes, Ok. Sincerely, Jim Bossman would be a bit alarming, because it's clear that the letter is a very formal one, but it deliberately omits everything you'd normally put in a letter. If you instead found your proposal mailed back to you with OK - Jim Bossman written on the bottom in red pen, you wouldn't be at all worried, although depending on the context you might be insulted by the informality. I think if a message without punctuation seems sloppy, the situation is formal enough to write a full sentence or paragraph. The combination of little to no feedback and attention to detail is what worries people.
AnimalMuppet 5y ago
How can a period completely change the meaning of a message? Especially a message that is just "Ok", with or without the period?
thaumasiotes 5y ago
> A period can completely change the meaning of a message. That's in your mind, unless you think your manager is one of the people who believes in Aggressive Periods. I've read the claim that periods are fraught with meaning many times, and yet I've never actually seen one used that way. Unless, of course, you meant something more like "OK。。。".
- elliekelly 5y ago
  Maybe you just haven’t realized it’s being used that way? Examples: “It’s fine!” (It is indeed fine.) “It’s fine.” (It’s not at all fine.) “K, thanks” (Got it, thanks) “K. Thanks.” (Cool. Thanks for nothing.) “Bye” (See you later) “Bye.” (Fuck off)
  - thaumasiotes 5y ago
    No, I assure you that, if there are peer groups that use periods that way, I am not part of any of them. And it's a mistake to assume that your manager must follow the same weird typographical conventions that you do. Odds are he's never heard of them.
    - elliekelly 5y ago
      It’s a pretty well documented/discussed aspect of text-based digital communication. Kind of like how text written in all caps is interpreted as “shouting”. I’m honestly shocked there are HN users who are unaware of the tone implications. Period. Full Stop. Point. Whatever It’s Called, It’s Going Out of Style (2016): https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/10/world/europe/period-full-stop-point-whatever-its-called-millennials-arent-using-it.html?_r=0 https://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/10/world/europe/period-full-... The Period Is Pissed (2013): https://newrepublic.com/article/115726/period-our-simplest-punctuation-mark-has-become-sign-anger https://newrepublic.com/article/115726/period-our-simplest-p... Stop. Using. Periods. Period. (2016): https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/13/stop-using-periods-period-2/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/06/13/stop-... The Secret Emotional Lives of 5 Punctuation Marks (2014): https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/59060/secret-emotional-lives-5-punctuation-marks https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/59060/secret-emotional-l... Why Does Using a Period in a Text Message Make You Sound Angry or Insincere? (2016): https://theconversation.com/why-does-using-a-period-in-a-text-message-make-you-sound-insincere-or-angry-61792 https://theconversation.com/why-does-using-a-period-in-a-tex... Yes. A Study Shows that Ending Your Texts with a Period Makes You Sound Like an Asshole (2016): https://www.mic.com/articles/130042/ending-your-texts-with-a-period-makes-you-sound-angry https://www.mic.com/articles/130042/ending-your-texts-with-a...
WalterBright 5y ago
> Or worse: “Ok.” A period can completely change the meaning of a message. I must have offended legions of people. I suppose "Ack" (short for Acknowledged) is also offensive?
- desmosxxx 5y ago
  not offensive but it can be read as dismissive. sounds good to me or will do seem better, but tbh chat generally sucks and we all just have to learn to not read too much into it.
- nfw2 5y ago
  My last manager would frequently message me "Ack!" after I would bring up some work concern, and until just now I thought he was making the exasperated sound from the Cathy comic strip.
  - sildur 5y ago
    Or the sound the Martians from Mars Attacks made.
- beaconstudios 5y ago
  by abbreviating, it seems like you value your own time higher than the other person, like their message is not worth writing a whole word in response. At least, that's how I might feel about it. That and it feels a bit like that sketch in The Office where Kevin drops all his interstitial words for "efficiency" and ends up sounding brain damaged. Obviously that's not the intent, but as per the article, work-related IMs and emails can heighten negative perception and such.
  - WalterBright 5y ago
    ACK (06) is ASCII for Acknowledge. "In data networking, telecommunications, and computer buses, an acknowledgment (ACK) is a signal that is passed between communicating processes, computers, or devices to signify acknowledgment, or receipt of message, as part of a communications protocol."
_-david-_ 5y ago
How does a period change the meaning?
- buttercraft 5y ago
  Think. About. It.
  - _-david-_ 5y ago
    Entirely different than just "OK" vs "OK.".

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

sovok_x 5y ago

No, from my experience, many people consider short reply to a long message a sort of dismissal of their effort, and if it uses slang it seems doubly offensive.

thatsamonad 5y ago
Right. My sense is it’s a dismissive and/or low effort response, especially to any sort of substantive message. But I’m also an anxious person so I’m likely reading into it too much. My typical reply if I want to quickly acknowledge something is, “Got it. Thank you!”

orev 5y ago

“Ok” to me is just acknowledgement of the message. It should not be seen as negative, just neutral.

elliekelly 5y ago
Whether or not it should be seen as neutral, it usually isn’t: https://www.insidehook.com/article/advice/the-difference-between-texting-k-ok-kk-explained https://www.insidehook.com/article/advice/the-difference-bet...

rdtsc 5y ago

I think it all depends on how that person usually responds, both in-person, and in written communication. If they are usually chatty and like to over-explain, and sprinkle emojis everywhere, and then, to this one particular message, they respond with just "ok.", then there could be something to it. However, if they are simply terse and serious most of the time anyway, then they are just being themselves. I would be nice if they were chattier, but it's just their usual personality.