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#1-3 are still on point, in areas of the country these petty charges are used as ways to get you "into the system" so they can take more money out of you. http

by R0b0t1 5y ago

#1-3 are still on point, in areas of the country these petty charges are used as ways to get you "into the system" so they can take more money out of you. https://features.propublica.org/medical-debt/when-medical-debt-collectors-decide-who-gets-arrested-coffeyville-kansas/ https://features.propublica.org/medical-debt/when-medical-de... Also there is worse happening, like where a city in I think MO was using yard upkeep fines and their nonpayment to put people in jail and then condemn their house so that it could be seized for property development.

deleted 5y ago
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floatingatoll 5y ago
I encourage revisiting #4 and considering the question "Why was that lawn being mowed?". Unexpectedly, it's Florida rather than Texas, where such a shooting would have been considered lawful and just (in Texas).
- R0b0t1 5y ago
  I agree that #4 counts. If they finish you get a bill. I would probably shoot at them too, but if you avoid killing anyone it's not likely to turn out good for you. Typically you get more sympathy if you end up killing someone. Before someone notes this is extremely bloodthirsty, it's not just about a lawn being cut, it's about the state arbitrarily demanding your money.
sithadmin 5y ago
I don't really agree that 1-3 are on point. The quote from the judge in 3 makes it clear that the woman in question was never charged with a criminal offense, and in fact chose to sit in a jail for 6 hours in lieu of paying a civil fine. As for the other two cases - the issues started with the lawn upkeep, yes, but the criminal aspect slips in for unrelated reasons. In #1, it's not clear exactly why contempt charges came into play, and it's quite unusual (and in many jurisdictions, not legal) to charge someone with criminal contempt for simple refusal to pay a civil fine...which leads me to believe there's something key being omitted here. In #2, it seems like the guy would have been fine keeping an unkempt lawn had he not explicitly violated a previous probation agreement; this isn't a situation that applies to the average person.
- Zak 5y ago
  When an individual steadfastly refuses to do something the government demands, one of two things happens: 1. A rich, or legally crafty individual can get a court to invalidate the demand, or tie up the issue in legal process for years or indefinitely. 2. The government will escalate until the individual is in jail. Jail isn't the first step in the enforcement process, but it's on the list, and fair to say that people were jailed because they didn't maintain their lawns to government standards following other enforcement efforts.

by R0b0t1 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

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floatingatoll 5y ago

I encourage revisiting #4 and considering the question "Why was that lawn being mowed?". Unexpectedly, it's Florida rather than Texas, where such a shooting would have been considered lawful and just (in Texas).

R0b0t1 5y ago
I agree that #4 counts. If they finish you get a bill. I would probably shoot at them too, but if you avoid killing anyone it's not likely to turn out good for you. Typically you get more sympathy if you end up killing someone. Before someone notes this is extremely bloodthirsty, it's not just about a lawn being cut, it's about the state arbitrarily demanding your money.

sithadmin 5y ago

I don't really agree that 1-3 are on point. The quote from the judge in 3 makes it clear that the woman in question was never charged with a criminal offense, and in fact chose to sit in a jail for 6 hours in lieu of paying a civil fine. As for the other two cases - the issues started with the lawn upkeep, yes, but the criminal aspect slips in for unrelated reasons. In #1, it's not clear exactly why contempt charges came into play, and it's quite unusual (and in many jurisdictions, not legal) to charge someone with criminal contempt for simple refusal to pay a civil fine...which leads me to believe there's something key being omitted here. In #2, it seems like the guy would have been fine keeping an unkempt lawn had he not explicitly violated a previous probation agreement; this isn't a situation that applies to the average person.

Zak 5y ago
When an individual steadfastly refuses to do something the government demands, one of two things happens: 1. A rich, or legally crafty individual can get a court to invalidate the demand, or tie up the issue in legal process for years or indefinitely. 2. The government will escalate until the individual is in jail. Jail isn't the first step in the enforcement process, but it's on the list, and fair to say that people were jailed because they didn't maintain their lawns to government standards following other enforcement efforts.