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Americans fetishize wealth and often discriminate based on signals of wealth from others, so it makes perfect sense that we fetishize a social signal of wealth

Americans fetishize wealth and often discriminate based on signals of wealth from others, so it makes perfect sense that we fetishize a social signal of wealth that cannot be faked effectively. That's why we still have lawns, even when a third (or whatever) of our drinking water gets poured into them each year, because it's more important to signal wealth here than it is to conserve water. Unfortunately, we also have lawns because they are a sign of "cleanliness", as our racists often label their desire to exclude non-whites, and they too prioritize exclusion over conservation. In the 1950s, when perfect lawn 'suddenly' became popular (as per the article), both wealthy Americans and racist Americans (there's a lot of overlap) moving to and driving the creation of suburbs were trying to find ways to exclude both poor people and non-white people. This was implemented more and less blatantly to varying degrees, and lawns are one outcome of that exclusionary desire. Wealthy whites realized that lawns were a perfect signal of wealth, and racist whites realized that lawns were a reliable and deniable signal of "cleanliness", which is code for "whiteness". They both enforced those signals with codes and laws (and later HOAs) that require a tidily-kept lawn, in order to exclude anyone unable to afford the time and money to maintain one, and both groups benefited from each other's efforts. Those laws continue to be enforced today in many neighborhoods, against people without the resources to maintain a lawn, and against people who voluntarily choose not to. That's why police are called on someone who grows a garden in their front yard: if anyone can just not grow a lawn, then the exclusionary groups think the neighborhood will decline into poverty and crime, because it will no longer be restricted to wealthy and/or white residents only.

sithadmin 5y ago
Do you have any citations pointing to where "police are called on someone who grows a garden in their front yard"? Unkempt lawns are definitely a matter of civil penalties in some jurisdiction, but I've never heard of (and frankly would be shocked if there was) a municipality that actually criminalized having an unkempt lawn.
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  As a kindness, I checked the first page of search results for the unquoted search phrase "arrested for unkempt lawn" for you, which provides several results about several people in several states on the first page; I stopped after the four below, and noted in passing how most of them seem to be regions where classism and/or racism remain prevalent today. https://www.fitsnews.com/2019/08/21/south-carolina-women-goes-to-jail-for-not-mowing-her-grass/ https://www.fitsnews.com/2019/08/21/south-carolina-women-goe... https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-jan-06-me-51449-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-jan-06-me-51449... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798209/angry-woman-faced-jail-time-overgrown-yard.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798209/angry-woman... https://homeimprovementnewsjournal.com/man-arrested-for-shooting-police-code-compliance-crew-for-unkempt-lawn/ https://homeimprovementnewsjournal.com/man-arrested-for-shoo... I invite you to search on your own if you require further evidence, and if you do choose to do so, I hope the search terms above help save you time.
  - sithadmin 5y ago
    None of these seem to reflect what I was asking about. #1: Woman was arrested for contempt of court #2: Man was arrested for violating terms of probation #3: This seems to fit the narrative, but, I quote: "The judge admitted that [unkempt-lawn-haver] is not a criminal and it was not a criminal case." It appears that a judge gave her the option of community service or 6 hours in jail to waive a (civil) fine? #4: Appears to be about police arresting someone who shot lawnmowers with a gun
    - floatingatoll 5y ago
      I would normally engage with someone and take apart each of the examples and demonstrate how they all do in fact stem directly from lawn maintenance laws. However, I can't come up with any way to give you the benefit the doubt for your series of replies here. You seem to have refused to perform your own research and draw conclusions from the results you find on your own, and I'm not interested in trying to argue with someone who simultaneously demands research from others (on an internet web forum, no less) while not performing even the most basic work themselves. With apologies, you'll have to move forward without further input from me.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- 908B64B197 5y ago
  I think you are arguing with someone that already decided lawns are racist.
  - floatingatoll 5y ago
    Lawns aren't racist, but laws often are.
    - 908B64B197 5y ago
      How is requiring lawn care racist?
      - floatingatoll 5y ago
        https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28399726 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28399726
gwilkes 5y ago
Lawns are racist? Sweet. That should be sufficient ammo to cancel them, get on it twitter people
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  That's a good idea. Please link us to your tweet about this problem, so that we might learn from your example and better craft our own wording to align with each other and coordinate hashtags (if any) to improve the chances of it Trending.
- dang 5y ago
  "Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
heurisko 5y ago
> Americans fetishize wealth and often discriminate based on signals of wealth from others, so it makes perfect sense that we fetishize a social signal of wealth that cannot be faked effectively. This is not particular to America, and is known as conspicuous consumption, which is also what the article covers. > both wealthy Americans and racist Americans (there's a lot of overlap) moving to and driving the creation of suburbs were trying to find ways to exclude both poor people and non-white people. Were wealthy Americans more or less racist than less wealthy Americans in this time? Since you mentioned lawns were a status symbol as part of a hierarchy, why is it not sufficient that they were maintaining lawns out of a desire for status i.e. "keeping up with the Joneses"? Indeed, this is what the article said was an anxiety of the time. > A 1959 article in the Journal of the American Medical Association on the psychosomatic effects of suburban development and “conspicuous consumption” explicitly mentioned the lawn as a source of psychological tension. “Many of our patients are overconcerned about keeping up appearances: ... there cannot be a blade of crabgrass in the lawn.” There was evidently a hierarchy, but I don't think you can so easily call its primary motivation as racism, or classism.

sithadmin 5y ago

Do you have any citations pointing to where "police are called on someone who grows a garden in their front yard"? Unkempt lawns are definitely a matter of civil penalties in some jurisdiction, but I've never heard of (and frankly would be shocked if there was) a municipality that actually criminalized having an unkempt lawn.

floatingatoll 5y ago
As a kindness, I checked the first page of search results for the unquoted search phrase "arrested for unkempt lawn" for you, which provides several results about several people in several states on the first page; I stopped after the four below, and noted in passing how most of them seem to be regions where classism and/or racism remain prevalent today. https://www.fitsnews.com/2019/08/21/south-carolina-women-goes-to-jail-for-not-mowing-her-grass/ https://www.fitsnews.com/2019/08/21/south-carolina-women-goe... https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-jan-06-me-51449-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2000-jan-06-me-51449... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798209/angry-woman-faced-jail-time-overgrown-yard.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2798209/angry-woman... https://homeimprovementnewsjournal.com/man-arrested-for-shooting-police-code-compliance-crew-for-unkempt-lawn/ https://homeimprovementnewsjournal.com/man-arrested-for-shoo... I invite you to search on your own if you require further evidence, and if you do choose to do so, I hope the search terms above help save you time.
- sithadmin 5y ago
  None of these seem to reflect what I was asking about. #1: Woman was arrested for contempt of court #2: Man was arrested for violating terms of probation #3: This seems to fit the narrative, but, I quote: "The judge admitted that [unkempt-lawn-haver] is not a criminal and it was not a criminal case." It appears that a judge gave her the option of community service or 6 hours in jail to waive a (civil) fine? #4: Appears to be about police arresting someone who shot lawnmowers with a gun
  - floatingatoll 5y ago
    I would normally engage with someone and take apart each of the examples and demonstrate how they all do in fact stem directly from lawn maintenance laws. However, I can't come up with any way to give you the benefit the doubt for your series of replies here. You seem to have refused to perform your own research and draw conclusions from the results you find on your own, and I'm not interested in trying to argue with someone who simultaneously demands research from others (on an internet web forum, no less) while not performing even the most basic work themselves. With apologies, you'll have to move forward without further input from me.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
908B64B197 5y ago
I think you are arguing with someone that already decided lawns are racist.
- floatingatoll 5y ago
  Lawns aren't racist, but laws often are.
  - 908B64B197 5y ago
    How is requiring lawn care racist?
    - floatingatoll 5y ago
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28399726 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28399726

gwilkes 5y ago

Lawns are racist? Sweet. That should be sufficient ammo to cancel them, get on it twitter people

floatingatoll 5y ago
That's a good idea. Please link us to your tweet about this problem, so that we might learn from your example and better craft our own wording to align with each other and coordinate hashtags (if any) to improve the chances of it Trending.
dang 5y ago
"Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith." https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

heurisko 5y ago

> Americans fetishize wealth and often discriminate based on signals of wealth from others, so it makes perfect sense that we fetishize a social signal of wealth that cannot be faked effectively. This is not particular to America, and is known as conspicuous consumption, which is also what the article covers. > both wealthy Americans and racist Americans (there's a lot of overlap) moving to and driving the creation of suburbs were trying to find ways to exclude both poor people and non-white people. Were wealthy Americans more or less racist than less wealthy Americans in this time? Since you mentioned lawns were a status symbol as part of a hierarchy, why is it not sufficient that they were maintaining lawns out of a desire for status i.e. "keeping up with the Joneses"? Indeed, this is what the article said was an anxiety of the time. > A 1959 article in the Journal of the American Medical Association on the psychosomatic effects of suburban development and “conspicuous consumption” explicitly mentioned the lawn as a source of psychological tension. “Many of our patients are overconcerned about keeping up appearances: ... there cannot be a blade of crabgrass in the lawn.” There was evidently a hierarchy, but I don't think you can so easily call its primary motivation as racism, or classism.