7 ms·

Corporations’ digital rights are protected more than the individual. We need a digital bill of rights.

samizdis 5y ago
I've seen that call quite frequently in the past couple of years. Such as in a Guardian article [1], and from groups such as Neeva [2] - worth checking its "about" section [3] to see its backers etc. Also, I think, worth taking the sort of sceptical stance expressed in a Wired article [4] from 2019, What’s a Digital Bill of Rights Without Enforcement?, which points out that some players ostensibly backing digital rights are possibly wolves in sheep's clothing. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/28/americans-need-a-digital-bill-of-rights-heres-why https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/28/americ... [2] https://neeva.com/digital-bill-of-rights https://neeva.com/digital-bill-of-rights [3] https://neeva.com/about https://neeva.com/about [4] https://www.wired.com/story/whats-digital-bill-rights-without-enforcement/ https://www.wired.com/story/whats-digital-bill-rights-withou...
chrononaut 5y ago
> We need a digital bill of rights. What would be in such a digital bill of rights? (This is a bit vague for me to understand what you're necessarily advocating for)
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- jollybean 5y ago
  Things like right to privacy, the right to not be arbitrarily excluded from services esp. for things like political views, the 'right to be forgotten', transparency in terms of information sharing, clarity in billing, the right to delete accounts permanently, etc. etc.. I think such a thing is actually more important than the monopolizing issues of the FAANGS. Breaking them up might be a little nice, but as individuals we're beholden to the incredible gatekeeping of industry.
- josh_today 5y ago
  Ownership of your data. Your social graph should be yours. Your photos should be yours And recently, your health should be yours The main pillars of a digital bill of rights would be the freedom to choose and portability.
  - hyperman1 5y ago
    Quite a lot of this is in the GDPR: The right of [access,rectification,erasure,restricted processing,data portability] for personal data. Personal data is defined as any information related to an identified or identifiable natural person, i.e. much wider than your identity. photos, health and probably also social graph fall under it.
    - oblio 5y ago
      Do you remember the outcry from HN when GDPR was announced and then later launched? It was hard to understand just how much of it was pure hate for what the law represented or just people realizing that GDPR will affect their bottom line.
      - BoxOfRain 5y ago
        I think more people complain about the implementation of the GDPR rather than its aims and philosophy. Those cookie popups for example are an absolute UX plague, anyone who'd heard the words "alarm fatigue" and vaguely comprehended what it meant could have told them it was a rubbish idea that papers over a yawning chasm. All that particular part of it achieved was making the Web worse. I block them all, and I've heard the British government is getting shot of them soon. They will not be missed.
        cnorthwood 5y ago
        The cookie popups are not part of GDPR, but a separate law (ePrivacy Directive)
        5y ago
8note 5y ago
I don't think there's anything special about being digital on this. If a newspaper didn't want to publish your letter to the editor, they aren't forced to
- chuckee 5y ago
  And if a phone company doesn't want to carry your calls, or a bank give you an account? Or if the largest ink and paper manufacturers collude to deny your newspaper the resources needed for printing? If the delivery unions refuse to deliver your newspaper? You're right, it's not the being digital that's special about this.
  - ceejayoz 5y ago
    Banks absolutely decline to give people accounts. If they find out you’re a sex worker, your account will immediately go poof. Hell, quite a few will kick you out the door if they see cryptocurrency transactions. Bounce a couple checks? You’ll wind up on an industry-wide blacklist via ChexSystems.
    - mc32 5y ago
      Do they kick them out of a commercial account or a personal account or both? I’m curious. I can see them not wanting to provide assistance to an illegal business, but what the reasoning behind denying a personal account?
      - heavyset_go 5y ago
        There are plenty of legal businesses that banks and payment processors refuse to do business with. Take a look at the long lists of businesses Stripe won't process payments for[1]. [1] https://stripe.com/restricted-businesses https://stripe.com/restricted-businesses
      - bostik 5y ago
        Only tangentially related, but try getting a UK or US bank account as a gambling company. Doable, yes. Easy, no. Low-effort, not a chance. And you still risk getting kicked out for no reason at all. Banks are terrified of gambling companies: they are one of the very few businesses where it is perfectly normal for a notable fraction of downstream customers to withdraw more money than they put in. Without ever having delivered any goods or billable services(!) Is it any wonder online gambling has been such a magnet for money laundering?
trompetenaccoun 5y ago
This is indeed urgently needed, many of our fundamental rights laws predate the internet and are outdated. Poland plans to introduce a law in that regard, although it only covers social media accounts and comments if I remember correctly.

I've seen that call quite frequently in the past couple of years. Such as in a Guardian article [1], and from groups such as Neeva [2] - worth checking its "about" section [3] to see its backers etc. Also, I think, worth taking the sort of sceptical stance expressed in a Wired article [4] from 2019, What’s a Digital Bill of Rights Without Enforcement?, which points out that some players ostensibly backing digital rights are possibly wolves in sheep's clothing. [1] https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/28/americans-need-a-digital-bill-of-rights-heres-why https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/28/americ... [2] https://neeva.com/digital-bill-of-rights https://neeva.com/digital-bill-of-rights [3] https://neeva.com/about https://neeva.com/about [4] https://www.wired.com/story/whats-digital-bill-rights-without-enforcement/ https://www.wired.com/story/whats-digital-bill-rights-withou...

chrononaut 5y ago

> We need a digital bill of rights. What would be in such a digital bill of rights? (This is a bit vague for me to understand what you're necessarily advocating for)

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
jollybean 5y ago
Things like right to privacy, the right to not be arbitrarily excluded from services esp. for things like political views, the 'right to be forgotten', transparency in terms of information sharing, clarity in billing, the right to delete accounts permanently, etc. etc.. I think such a thing is actually more important than the monopolizing issues of the FAANGS. Breaking them up might be a little nice, but as individuals we're beholden to the incredible gatekeeping of industry.
josh_today 5y ago
Ownership of your data. Your social graph should be yours. Your photos should be yours And recently, your health should be yours The main pillars of a digital bill of rights would be the freedom to choose and portability.
- hyperman1 5y ago
  Quite a lot of this is in the GDPR: The right of [access,rectification,erasure,restricted processing,data portability] for personal data. Personal data is defined as any information related to an identified or identifiable natural person, i.e. much wider than your identity. photos, health and probably also social graph fall under it.
  - oblio 5y ago
    Do you remember the outcry from HN when GDPR was announced and then later launched? It was hard to understand just how much of it was pure hate for what the law represented or just people realizing that GDPR will affect their bottom line.
    - BoxOfRain 5y ago
      I think more people complain about the implementation of the GDPR rather than its aims and philosophy. Those cookie popups for example are an absolute UX plague, anyone who'd heard the words "alarm fatigue" and vaguely comprehended what it meant could have told them it was a rubbish idea that papers over a yawning chasm. All that particular part of it achieved was making the Web worse. I block them all, and I've heard the British government is getting shot of them soon. They will not be missed.
      - cnorthwood 5y ago
        The cookie popups are not part of GDPR, but a separate law (ePrivacy Directive)
        5y ago

8note 5y ago

I don't think there's anything special about being digital on this. If a newspaper didn't want to publish your letter to the editor, they aren't forced to

chuckee 5y ago
And if a phone company doesn't want to carry your calls, or a bank give you an account? Or if the largest ink and paper manufacturers collude to deny your newspaper the resources needed for printing? If the delivery unions refuse to deliver your newspaper? You're right, it's not the being digital that's special about this.
- ceejayoz 5y ago
  Banks absolutely decline to give people accounts. If they find out you’re a sex worker, your account will immediately go poof. Hell, quite a few will kick you out the door if they see cryptocurrency transactions. Bounce a couple checks? You’ll wind up on an industry-wide blacklist via ChexSystems.
  - mc32 5y ago
    Do they kick them out of a commercial account or a personal account or both? I’m curious. I can see them not wanting to provide assistance to an illegal business, but what the reasoning behind denying a personal account?
    - heavyset_go 5y ago
      There are plenty of legal businesses that banks and payment processors refuse to do business with. Take a look at the long lists of businesses Stripe won't process payments for[1]. [1] https://stripe.com/restricted-businesses https://stripe.com/restricted-businesses
    - bostik 5y ago
      Only tangentially related, but try getting a UK or US bank account as a gambling company. Doable, yes. Easy, no. Low-effort, not a chance. And you still risk getting kicked out for no reason at all. Banks are terrified of gambling companies: they are one of the very few businesses where it is perfectly normal for a notable fraction of downstream customers to withdraw more money than they put in. Without ever having delivered any goods or billable services(!) Is it any wonder online gambling has been such a magnet for money laundering?

trompetenaccoun 5y ago

This is indeed urgently needed, many of our fundamental rights laws predate the internet and are outdated. Poland plans to introduce a law in that regard, although it only covers social media accounts and comments if I remember correctly.