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You're not making a stealth carrier. You can't hide a carrier. And no, China doesn't need an F35 analog. They need frontal stealth and they can operate from ru

You're not making a stealth carrier. You can't hide a carrier. And no, China doesn't need an F35 analog. They need frontal stealth and they can operate from runways. The game is the SCS, not CONUS.

dragontamer 5y ago
> You're not making a stealth carrier. You can't hide a carrier. Yes you can. Step 1: Run out to the ocean to an area where satellites aren't over consistently. Step 2: Move randomly at 35 mph with your twin nuclear engines. Step 3: Where's the carrier? -------- You can't scan the whole ocean. Its physically impossible, even with satellite coverage. No stealth capabilities needed at all, you just hide in the vast emptiness that is the ocean itself.
- sudosysgen 5y ago
  How far are you going to go at 35mph in the 2 hour hole you have? 70 miles? How are you going to hide a 300m object in a 70 mile area? It just cannot be done. It's not possible.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    > 70 mile area You missed a square and a pi. That's a 15,386 square mile area.
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      15k square mile is really not a lot for a 300m target in the ocean. I think you seriously underestimate modern surveillance.
- dragonwriter 5y ago
  > You can't scan the whole ocean. No, but you can scan the radius of uncertainty of where a known carrier-sized object may have gone in a satellite gap of a few hours at a top speed of say 40 kts, known maneuvering capability, and a known starting position and velocity, pretty easily. Now, if you add teleportation in so you have to scan the whole ocean, sure, but that’s a big “if”.
  - dragontamer 5y ago
    Is there any reason to think your satellite, drone, or spy plane will survive that 2-hour window in a wartime scenario to in fact, pick out the aircraft carrier in the 15,000 sq. mile area it could have traveled?
    - sudosysgen 5y ago
      Modern sensors can scan a 10000 sq km area for a 1m^2 target in a matter of seconds. It won't take hours. They also only need to do it once. But yes, they can.
    - dragonwriter 5y ago
      > Is there any reason to think your satellite, drone, or spy plane will survive that 2-hour window in a wartime scenario The threats of concern...have quite a large inventory of drones, spy planes, and other sensor platforms, and, in any case, if your method of evading detection is destroying all available hostile sensor platforms, stealth is superfluous.
      - dragontamer 5y ago
        If a drone is flying at 10km high, it can only see 357km before the horizon blocks its sight. The Carrier's AEW in service (E2-Hawkeye) is allegedly able to detect threats up to 550km or so away. (remember: the Hawkeye is also in the air, so it will be peaking out of the horizon long before the carrier is visible) The escort cruisers allegedly have Raytheon AN/SPS-49, which apparently have 474 km range vs air enemies (other radars / sonars exist for sea). Either way, if the drone can see the Cruiser, the cruiser probably can see the drone. Furthermore, AEGIS cruisers are literally the "shields" of the carrier: deployed in front to kill targets before they detect the carrier. So likely: you're not detecting the carrier first. The first things you detect are the AEGIS escort ships. Nominally, these radar systems are for missile tracking, but they will serve as eyes/ears for the strike group if a squadron of drones is approaching. The one-two punch of the aerial radar (Hawkeye) + sea-based radar (Ticonderoga AEGIS cruisers) means that its no small feat to "sneak up" upon the carrier strike group. ----- How long does it take for your drone to travel from 550km away to ~300km, during which it is under threat from at minimum, the escort cruiser? Maybe an airwing or two who could scramble a counter-attack? Its not like your drone is flying straight at the carrier either (you still haven't found the carrier: you only found an escort cruiser. The carrier is likely over the horizon still). > if your method of evading detection is destroying all available hostile sensor platforms, stealth is superfluous. Yeah, that's the idea for a Carrier's defenses anyway. The CSG has not only incredible airborne radar systems (E2-Hawkeye), but also incredible ship-based radar systems scanning for this sort of stuff. That's why stealth aircraft (like F35) are so key for future wars. That's the only way to penetrate the radar coverage. Things like autonomous drones have a control signal that can be tracked, while F35 manned aircraft could go radio silent on their stealth approach (relying upon the human brain in the aircraft to make decisions without any connection to homebase). Unmanned + Stealth is possible, but its a difficult kind of paradox. A lot of decisions need to be made during radio-silence periods. You want to win at the sensor war. Detect the enemy before they detect you. Then destroy the enemy's eyes and ears. ---- And then the AEGIS radar systems are also deployed on each Destroyer in the strike group (4 to 9 Destroyers deployed per CSG). That's a lot of sensors your drone squadron has to fly around to successfully find a carrier.

You're not making a stealth carrier. You can't hide a carrier. And no, China doesn't need an F35 analog. They need frontal stealth and they can operate from runways. The game is the SCS, not CONUS.

dragontamer 5y ago

> You're not making a stealth carrier. You can't hide a carrier. Yes you can. Step 1: Run out to the ocean to an area where satellites aren't over consistently. Step 2: Move randomly at 35 mph with your twin nuclear engines. Step 3: Where's the carrier? -------- You can't scan the whole ocean. Its physically impossible, even with satellite coverage. No stealth capabilities needed at all, you just hide in the vast emptiness that is the ocean itself.

sudosysgen 5y ago
How far are you going to go at 35mph in the 2 hour hole you have? 70 miles? How are you going to hide a 300m object in a 70 mile area? It just cannot be done. It's not possible.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  > 70 mile area You missed a square and a pi. That's a 15,386 square mile area.
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    15k square mile is really not a lot for a 300m target in the ocean. I think you seriously underestimate modern surveillance.
dragonwriter 5y ago
> You can't scan the whole ocean. No, but you can scan the radius of uncertainty of where a known carrier-sized object may have gone in a satellite gap of a few hours at a top speed of say 40 kts, known maneuvering capability, and a known starting position and velocity, pretty easily. Now, if you add teleportation in so you have to scan the whole ocean, sure, but that’s a big “if”.
- dragontamer 5y ago
  Is there any reason to think your satellite, drone, or spy plane will survive that 2-hour window in a wartime scenario to in fact, pick out the aircraft carrier in the 15,000 sq. mile area it could have traveled?
  - sudosysgen 5y ago
    Modern sensors can scan a 10000 sq km area for a 1m^2 target in a matter of seconds. It won't take hours. They also only need to do it once. But yes, they can.
  - dragonwriter 5y ago
    > Is there any reason to think your satellite, drone, or spy plane will survive that 2-hour window in a wartime scenario The threats of concern...have quite a large inventory of drones, spy planes, and other sensor platforms, and, in any case, if your method of evading detection is destroying all available hostile sensor platforms, stealth is superfluous.
    - dragontamer 5y ago
      If a drone is flying at 10km high, it can only see 357km before the horizon blocks its sight. The Carrier's AEW in service (E2-Hawkeye) is allegedly able to detect threats up to 550km or so away. (remember: the Hawkeye is also in the air, so it will be peaking out of the horizon long before the carrier is visible) The escort cruisers allegedly have Raytheon AN/SPS-49, which apparently have 474 km range vs air enemies (other radars / sonars exist for sea). Either way, if the drone can see the Cruiser, the cruiser probably can see the drone. Furthermore, AEGIS cruisers are literally the "shields" of the carrier: deployed in front to kill targets before they detect the carrier. So likely: you're not detecting the carrier first. The first things you detect are the AEGIS escort ships. Nominally, these radar systems are for missile tracking, but they will serve as eyes/ears for the strike group if a squadron of drones is approaching. The one-two punch of the aerial radar (Hawkeye) + sea-based radar (Ticonderoga AEGIS cruisers) means that its no small feat to "sneak up" upon the carrier strike group. ----- How long does it take for your drone to travel from 550km away to ~300km, during which it is under threat from at minimum, the escort cruiser? Maybe an airwing or two who could scramble a counter-attack? Its not like your drone is flying straight at the carrier either (you still haven't found the carrier: you only found an escort cruiser. The carrier is likely over the horizon still). > if your method of evading detection is destroying all available hostile sensor platforms, stealth is superfluous. Yeah, that's the idea for a Carrier's defenses anyway. The CSG has not only incredible airborne radar systems (E2-Hawkeye), but also incredible ship-based radar systems scanning for this sort of stuff. That's why stealth aircraft (like F35) are so key for future wars. That's the only way to penetrate the radar coverage. Things like autonomous drones have a control signal that can be tracked, while F35 manned aircraft could go radio silent on their stealth approach (relying upon the human brain in the aircraft to make decisions without any connection to homebase). Unmanned + Stealth is possible, but its a difficult kind of paradox. A lot of decisions need to be made during radio-silence periods. You want to win at the sensor war. Detect the enemy before they detect you. Then destroy the enemy's eyes and ears. ---- And then the AEGIS radar systems are also deployed on each Destroyer in the strike group (4 to 9 Destroyers deployed per CSG). That's a lot of sensors your drone squadron has to fly around to successfully find a carrier.