7 ms·

Activist shares script to flood Texas abortion whistleblower site with fake info

37 points by avnigo 5y ago

avnigo 5y ago
The article does not talk about the legality of submitting fake info, or more specifically batch submitting forms like that. As far as I can tell, it refers to a government website (I can't actually access the website from my location). Regardless of the topic or reason, generally doing so seems like a gray area to me. It's a pretty low bar for something to qualify as "hacking" in legal terms, even if it actually might not be. Does anyone know if there are legal implications to this?
- codeecan 5y ago
  I believe Aaron Swartz[1] was arrested for something similar where he was sending batch requests to access documents. His case didn't involve fraud like here but it sets a precedent for causing undue burden on a computer system. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz#The_download https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz#The_download --- On a side note, can anyone explain why covid mandates are fine but abortion laws are evil? Those groups have heavy overlap of supporters and both are about bodily autonomy.
  - jazzyjackson 5y ago
    abortion is a personal matter and covid is a public health matter, pretty hard line distinction. Also it's a matter of degree: banning abortions is forcing women to undergo childbirth, while covid mandates are a matter of paper masks and a couple shots of prophylactic.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - halfjoking 5y ago
      “Couple shots of prophylactic” would be true if there was an inactive virus vaccine option. These shots are the first that use a custom RNA sequence to program your cells to produce proteins. Like I’ve said before - the attack surface is too great to be an acceptable health measure mandated by hostile state actors. (all governments are hostile state actors IMO) I’d rather be a bubble boy for the rest of my life than take an RNA shot.
      - yellowapple 5y ago
        > the attack surface is too great to be an acceptable health measure mandated by hostile state actors. I'm curious where you think there's an attack surface for RNA-based vaccines that doesn't also apply to dead-virus vaccines.
        halfjoking 5y ago
        A while ago HN front page had this article about the RNA sequence in the vaccines: https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source-code-of-the-biontech-pfizer-vaccine/ https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source... They use DNA printers to produce the RNA. Just like electronic voting machines without a paper trail I do not trust the RNA sequence is the same as what clinical researchers developed. RNA can do more than just produce proteins: https://knoji.com/article/list-of-11-other-types-of-rna/ https://knoji.com/article/list-of-11-other-types-of-rna/ Can I say what type would be used to do something nefarious? TBH I have no idea, but the possibilities seem limitless. That’s why there’s so much funding around RNA vaccines now - they could potentially cure almost anything. Compare that with inactive virus vaccines like China’s Sinovac. The ingredients are well-known, you can’t change a dead virus to do anything crazy like alter gene expression, if they added something harmful to the vaccine it would be very obvious. Also China even open-sources their inactive virus vaccine and exports raw materials to other nations to manufacture them: http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-01/12/c_139661608.htm http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-01/12/c_139661608.htm A plot to add some "secret sauce" to a vaccine wouldn't work in that scenario. So I can trust open-source inactive virus vaccines. I can never trust an RNA vaccine until I can verify the RNA code in it. (equivalent of a checksum in software). So until we have DNA printers at home I’m not taking it.
  - everybodyknows 5y ago
    >covid mandates are fine >abortion laws are evil No one willing to seriously consider the ethical issues involved would posit either dilemma in such terms.
    - rs999gti 5y ago
      Yes, but both relate to body autonomy https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/how-republican-men-are-weaponizing-anti-covid-vaccine-arguments-n1276967 https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/how-republican-men-are-weaponi...
  - jamroom 5y ago
    Which states have a legally mandated vaccinations? I’m not aware of any.
- greenie_beans 5y ago
  No idea, but a precedent might be similar to fake 911 calls? (assuming those two things are equal, which they aren't in my opinion) Speaking of precedents being broken…
- breckenedge 5y ago
  It’s actually not a government website. That’s what’s so insidious about this law that sets it apart from others — it deputizes (and rewards) citizens to sue anyone suspected of aiding an abortion.
  - mikestew 5y ago
    So Texas has turned into Nazi-era Germany, or alternatively many Cold War-era communist countries? Though I don't think neighborhood snitches got cash rewards back then, so that's some progress.
    - rsynnott 5y ago
      I don't think even in, say, East Germany, snitching on your neighbour was a _formal, legally sanctioned_ arrangement. It's a truly bizarre law.
sneak 5y ago
I'd like to see this for all of the "analytics" (aka spyware) embedded in things like Homebrew, Docker, et c.
scarmig 5y ago
Of course, flooding lower-friction reporting websites with fraudulent info is becoming standard operating procedure. Undoubtedly you'll end up with conservative activists doing the same with sites meant to aid in identifying voter suppression, workplace malfeasance, "public" comment on policy changes (cf net neutrality). The net effect is going to be most of them will be nothing but noise, until they require some strict proof of real identity (which takes away the low friction aspect).
klyrs 5y ago
Dystopian musing, not a serious proposal... Next step: set up a miscarriage support line, which only collects people's information and hangs up. Why use fake info when you can target grieving families? Are they gonna be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the miscarriage was not intentional? Or will they be willing to settle out of court for $500?

37 points by avnigo 5y ago

The article does not talk about the legality of submitting fake info, or more specifically batch submitting forms like that. As far as I can tell, it refers to a government website (I can't actually access the website from my location). Regardless of the topic or reason, generally doing so seems like a gray area to me. It's a pretty low bar for something to qualify as "hacking" in legal terms, even if it actually might not be. Does anyone know if there are legal implications to this?

codeecan 5y ago
I believe Aaron Swartz[1] was arrested for something similar where he was sending batch requests to access documents. His case didn't involve fraud like here but it sets a precedent for causing undue burden on a computer system. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz#The_download https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Swartz#The_download --- On a side note, can anyone explain why covid mandates are fine but abortion laws are evil? Those groups have heavy overlap of supporters and both are about bodily autonomy.
- jazzyjackson 5y ago
  abortion is a personal matter and covid is a public health matter, pretty hard line distinction. Also it's a matter of degree: banning abortions is forcing women to undergo childbirth, while covid mandates are a matter of paper masks and a couple shots of prophylactic.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - halfjoking 5y ago
    “Couple shots of prophylactic” would be true if there was an inactive virus vaccine option. These shots are the first that use a custom RNA sequence to program your cells to produce proteins. Like I’ve said before - the attack surface is too great to be an acceptable health measure mandated by hostile state actors. (all governments are hostile state actors IMO) I’d rather be a bubble boy for the rest of my life than take an RNA shot.
    - yellowapple 5y ago
      > the attack surface is too great to be an acceptable health measure mandated by hostile state actors. I'm curious where you think there's an attack surface for RNA-based vaccines that doesn't also apply to dead-virus vaccines.
      - halfjoking 5y ago
        A while ago HN front page had this article about the RNA sequence in the vaccines: https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source-code-of-the-biontech-pfizer-vaccine/ https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source... They use DNA printers to produce the RNA. Just like electronic voting machines without a paper trail I do not trust the RNA sequence is the same as what clinical researchers developed. RNA can do more than just produce proteins: https://knoji.com/article/list-of-11-other-types-of-rna/ https://knoji.com/article/list-of-11-other-types-of-rna/ Can I say what type would be used to do something nefarious? TBH I have no idea, but the possibilities seem limitless. That’s why there’s so much funding around RNA vaccines now - they could potentially cure almost anything. Compare that with inactive virus vaccines like China’s Sinovac. The ingredients are well-known, you can’t change a dead virus to do anything crazy like alter gene expression, if they added something harmful to the vaccine it would be very obvious. Also China even open-sources their inactive virus vaccine and exports raw materials to other nations to manufacture them: http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-01/12/c_139661608.htm http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2021-01/12/c_139661608.htm A plot to add some "secret sauce" to a vaccine wouldn't work in that scenario. So I can trust open-source inactive virus vaccines. I can never trust an RNA vaccine until I can verify the RNA code in it. (equivalent of a checksum in software). So until we have DNA printers at home I’m not taking it.
- everybodyknows 5y ago
  >covid mandates are fine >abortion laws are evil No one willing to seriously consider the ethical issues involved would posit either dilemma in such terms.
  - rs999gti 5y ago
    Yes, but both relate to body autonomy https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/how-republican-men-are-weaponizing-anti-covid-vaccine-arguments-n1276967 https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/how-republican-men-are-weaponi...
- jamroom 5y ago
  Which states have a legally mandated vaccinations? I’m not aware of any.
greenie_beans 5y ago
No idea, but a precedent might be similar to fake 911 calls? (assuming those two things are equal, which they aren't in my opinion) Speaking of precedents being broken…
breckenedge 5y ago
It’s actually not a government website. That’s what’s so insidious about this law that sets it apart from others — it deputizes (and rewards) citizens to sue anyone suspected of aiding an abortion.
- mikestew 5y ago
  So Texas has turned into Nazi-era Germany, or alternatively many Cold War-era communist countries? Though I don't think neighborhood snitches got cash rewards back then, so that's some progress.
  - rsynnott 5y ago
    I don't think even in, say, East Germany, snitching on your neighbour was a _formal, legally sanctioned_ arrangement. It's a truly bizarre law.

sneak 5y ago

I'd like to see this for all of the "analytics" (aka spyware) embedded in things like Homebrew, Docker, et c.

scarmig 5y ago

Of course, flooding lower-friction reporting websites with fraudulent info is becoming standard operating procedure. Undoubtedly you'll end up with conservative activists doing the same with sites meant to aid in identifying voter suppression, workplace malfeasance, "public" comment on policy changes (cf net neutrality). The net effect is going to be most of them will be nothing but noise, until they require some strict proof of real identity (which takes away the low friction aspect).

klyrs 5y ago

Dystopian musing, not a serious proposal... Next step: set up a miscarriage support line, which only collects people's information and hangs up. Why use fake info when you can target grieving families? Are they gonna be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the miscarriage was not intentional? Or will they be willing to settle out of court for $500?