3 ms·

When a measure becomes a target...

by techbio 5y ago

edmundsauto 5y ago
Wisdom becomes a platitude when repeated without specific comments about relevance.
- techbio 5y ago
  It is relevant in the context of the message thread it replies to. If you do think my reply was unwise, I'd be happy to have your explanation for why you think that, but I am fairly certain that platitude is the wrong word here. Maybe you mean something like "played out", but then that would seem to be just your opinion.
  - edmundsauto 5y ago
    Why do you think this measure is a target? It is possible for a measure to become a target and still remain useful - a few catchy words that describe some situations doesn't give any indication of an analysis of the process, or even define the difference between a measure and a target, or any indication that is what's happening here. Some measures become targets, sometimes. Sometimes those become less useful; other times they are both useful and not useful in different ways. Determining when something is useful is too nuanced and multi-dimensional to reduce it to a catchy phrase.
    - techbio 5y ago
      Show me it isn't? If you are simply critical of my brevity and not my message, I agree with you but am surprised that you would be less critical of the message to which I replied. If you believe there is no evidence of society conforming itself in drastic ways to attempt to control infection rates, we may be operating with different facts, but I unfortunately remain unaware of which facts yours are, and apparently you of mine. Edit: It is my position that the actions of authorities should be aligned with the preferred outcomes of the governed, and any relevant information made transparently available to the governed to be fairly evaluated. My assumption is that in the case of Australia and others, a mandate to fight a virus has become an outsized metric in the role of governing and some other leading institutions, and other issues are not being addressed that should be.
      - edmundsauto 5y ago
        > Show me it isn't? Often repeated on this forum: positive assertions require the support. In this case, something like, "here is how the current situation resembles this abstraction and thus we can conclude XYZ". You seem to feel the work is done just by making a passing comment that superficially resembles the situation. Some dots that would be worth connecting: 1. What is the a priori difference between measure and target? 2. How can we tell when we have passed between the two? 3. Can a measure be a target and still be useful? 4. What if a measure is sometimes a target to some people, but sometimes purely a measure to others? Or at different times, or different locales? 5. Is there any context to expand the problem dimensionality to beyond an artificial difference of Measure/Target? There are plenty of other explanations that could be offered, and would fit the available facts. If alternative explanations could fit the same facts, it requires additional work to disprove other explanations before deciding on "the right answer" (which doesn't really exist). Or one could, ya know, acknowledge that any particular interpretation is just an opinion and not particularly insightful. Looking for alternatives and seriously considering them is a critical step for reducing bias. I will leave it as an exercise for you to work through your own biases - anything I suggest at this point would be dismissed. However, if you find yourself seeing this as either this-way, or that-way, you are probably experiencing tunnel vision and not seeing the complexity and messiness of real life situations. Regardless, a glib phrase that might apply in some ways, and doesn't apply in others, is not a particularly useful or insightful approach.
        techbio 5y ago
        While I appreciate the effort that went into your replies, and may even have learned something, they seem rather abstracted from the questions I asked and the topic in context.
- techbio 5y ago
  It would be fun to see who thinks running a country by using the target of infection rate is better than the (also) deeply flawed target of GDP. Either I've miscalculated or misspoken, but I don't see that my post needed any more elaboration than its final ellipses, and the silent downvotes perhaps could be better explained, but I'll just assume my post was too low effort to merit that and forget all about it.

When a measure becomes a target...

edmundsauto 5y ago

Wisdom becomes a platitude when repeated without specific comments about relevance.

techbio 5y ago
It is relevant in the context of the message thread it replies to. If you do think my reply was unwise, I'd be happy to have your explanation for why you think that, but I am fairly certain that platitude is the wrong word here. Maybe you mean something like "played out", but then that would seem to be just your opinion.
- edmundsauto 5y ago
  Why do you think this measure is a target? It is possible for a measure to become a target and still remain useful - a few catchy words that describe some situations doesn't give any indication of an analysis of the process, or even define the difference between a measure and a target, or any indication that is what's happening here. Some measures become targets, sometimes. Sometimes those become less useful; other times they are both useful and not useful in different ways. Determining when something is useful is too nuanced and multi-dimensional to reduce it to a catchy phrase.
  - techbio 5y ago
    Show me it isn't? If you are simply critical of my brevity and not my message, I agree with you but am surprised that you would be less critical of the message to which I replied. If you believe there is no evidence of society conforming itself in drastic ways to attempt to control infection rates, we may be operating with different facts, but I unfortunately remain unaware of which facts yours are, and apparently you of mine. Edit: It is my position that the actions of authorities should be aligned with the preferred outcomes of the governed, and any relevant information made transparently available to the governed to be fairly evaluated. My assumption is that in the case of Australia and others, a mandate to fight a virus has become an outsized metric in the role of governing and some other leading institutions, and other issues are not being addressed that should be.
    - edmundsauto 5y ago
      > Show me it isn't? Often repeated on this forum: positive assertions require the support. In this case, something like, "here is how the current situation resembles this abstraction and thus we can conclude XYZ". You seem to feel the work is done just by making a passing comment that superficially resembles the situation. Some dots that would be worth connecting: 1. What is the a priori difference between measure and target? 2. How can we tell when we have passed between the two? 3. Can a measure be a target and still be useful? 4. What if a measure is sometimes a target to some people, but sometimes purely a measure to others? Or at different times, or different locales? 5. Is there any context to expand the problem dimensionality to beyond an artificial difference of Measure/Target? There are plenty of other explanations that could be offered, and would fit the available facts. If alternative explanations could fit the same facts, it requires additional work to disprove other explanations before deciding on "the right answer" (which doesn't really exist). Or one could, ya know, acknowledge that any particular interpretation is just an opinion and not particularly insightful. Looking for alternatives and seriously considering them is a critical step for reducing bias. I will leave it as an exercise for you to work through your own biases - anything I suggest at this point would be dismissed. However, if you find yourself seeing this as either this-way, or that-way, you are probably experiencing tunnel vision and not seeing the complexity and messiness of real life situations. Regardless, a glib phrase that might apply in some ways, and doesn't apply in others, is not a particularly useful or insightful approach.
      - techbio 5y ago
        While I appreciate the effort that went into your replies, and may even have learned something, they seem rather abstracted from the questions I asked and the topic in context.
techbio 5y ago
It would be fun to see who thinks running a country by using the target of infection rate is better than the (also) deeply flawed target of GDP. Either I've miscalculated or misspoken, but I don't see that my post needed any more elaboration than its final ellipses, and the silent downvotes perhaps could be better explained, but I'll just assume my post was too low effort to merit that and forget all about it.