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Thinking about this stuff is what prompted my thinking about things like suicide. The Universe is so vast. So much space, most of it with only the barest wisp

Thinking about this stuff is what prompted my thinking about things like suicide. The Universe is so vast. So much space, most of it with only the barest wisp of gas. Most of the solar systems we see in the night sky may not have life (we don't know yet). And yet here we are, a rare event in a vast Universe. In the end it doesn't matter what you do. What you accomplish or did not accomplish. What awards were won or lost, life goals achieved or not. Everything you can see (including the stars in the sky), everything you have ever heard about will be less than dust at some point in the far future. No statues will survive, no history books, no songs of glory. The stars will wink out, the galaxies red-shift past the point of visibility as they rush away from us. It will eventually be a vast, empty and quiet expanse, as the last of the black holes slowly evaporate. But right here, right now, you are alive and able to experience the Universe. Yes, you may be in a shitty situation now, but you are still alive and you still have possibilities to experience something wonderful. It won't last, it never lasts, but that isn't the point. We all have to appreciate what we do have, when we have it. Some people are in truly shitty situations, and legitimately have no way out, with no possible means to create even a little happiness for themselves. But for everyone else thinking of ending things prematurely, I urge you to consider how rare and precious you are. If you can give even a little kindness to someone else, it will have been worth it, because that's all that really matters, on our journey to infinity.

rbanffy 5y ago
We live on some of the nicest and most interesting part of all of spacetime. I cherish every moment, even knowing our names and deeds will be long forgotten (at least I hope some of mine are) well before the first proton decays.
allendoerfer 5y ago
It helps to think of time as a dimension. Sure, you, anyone or anything will not last measured on this dimension. But it still has a span. You would not call objects meaningless or less beautiful just because they physically end at some point in space. Why is time so different? It is just the fourth dimension of their shape, giving them a more unique character.
- sooheon 5y ago
  I love this take. Very Vonnegut.
- goatlover 5y ago
  Because for most of that dimension, there won't be anyone around to consider the spans meaningful or beautiful.
- dunnevens 5y ago
  I came up with similar thoughts after losing someone I loved. Helped immensely to think of time as a dimension. Even though I'm trapped on a one way course, those previous moments still exist. Even though the person I loved is dead and I'll never talk to her again, those moments of her life will always exist. As far as I know, nothing can ever erase it. There will always be a place in the universe where she's alive and happy. A place that I'll probably never be able to visit but still is immensely comforting knowing it exists. I guess that's my version of a secular afterlife. Not entirely comforting as all the moments of suffering still exist too, somewhere. But still, it means there's a permanence to even the most impermanent things.
  - herdcall 5y ago
    This (that time is a dimension) is as I understand what most physicists believe today and constitutes the so-called eternalism (or "block universe") philosophy of time. According to this view, past/present/future are our (human) terms to explain what is already laid out and we're simply moving along the time access just like we move along in space (though of course only in direction). I've become a big believer in this view. A valuable upshot of embracing eternalism is that it makes it much easier not to regret the past or worry about the future, though some believe it encourages risky behavior.
    - uh_uh 5y ago
      I don't think most physicists subscribe to the view that things are laid out already. I think most believe that physics is non-deterministic due to QM. Other schools of thoughts like superdeterminism does believe what you're saying but I think this is a minority view (albeit advocated by some very high profile physicists). What is not clear to me however is whether a block universe view can still be correct even if non-determinism is true.
elevaet 5y ago
Your words were stirring. Reminds me of the monologue scene in "Ghost Story" https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6bs2o5 https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6bs2o5
kibwen 5y ago
Similar experience here. Learning about astronomy was a psychologically traumatizing experience. After a few years of ceaseless low-key existential crises I think I finally ended up better off, with a healthy perspective of my place in the universe and an appreciation for what a miracle it is that we have the chance to observe anything at all. The writings of Carl Sagan helped greatly. But I fear I could have just as easily slipped off the knife's edge into either nihilism on one side or hedonism on the other.
- AlexanderTheGr8 5y ago
  Is nihilism or hedonism bad? A lot of people already live their lives for pleasure (hedonism) - people work their entire lives to earn money to either enjoy / vacation / sex / etc. Nihilism is considerably rare but I believe that's because it's opposite to hedonism, in a way.
  - Saptarishi 5y ago
    I think good-bad is not a fair comparision to classify hedonism into one of them. There are generic pleasures like money/sex , and subjective pleasures.Both can easily spiral into greed, malice and prejudice, none of which we really want too much of.
  - entropicdrifter 5y ago
    >I believe that's because it's opposite to hedonism, in a way. I don't see how. Nihilism is descriptive whereas hedonism is prescriptive. Nihilism is an answer to the question of what is or is not, to which is says, "not at all". That's why there are many flavors of nihilism, such as existential nihilism ("there is no meaning at all"), moral nihilism ("there is no morality at all"), or epistemic nihilism ("there is no knowledge at all"). Contrast hedonism, which is an answer to the question of what one ought to do with one's time, or to put another way, it's a min-max strategy where pain is minimized and pleasure is maximized. I don't see how those two areas of philosophy contradict each other in any way.
- NikolaeVarius 5y ago
  I dont understand. hedonism and nihilism are good things.
entropicdrifter 5y ago
>In the end it doesn't matter what you do. What you accomplish or did not accomplish. What awards were won or lost, life goals achieved or not. I tend to turn this type of thinking on its head. Nothing matters, so relax, it's a ride. Take a few gambles, risk whatever you're willing to lose and see what you can pull off! Life can be wild if you're not caught up in the stuffy pretense that we all have some grand purpose or destiny. Honestly, at this point I'm convinced that conventional thinking on this topic is more or less a trap to keep people from exploring and having adventures, so that they're better servants to the elites of our world.
AlexanderTheGr8 5y ago
"Nothing matters" - that's a very soothing thought. It's soothing because we all focus of what we haven't / couldn't done. It's human mentality to think of bad things over good things. So if nothing matters, then our bad things don't matter, and so it's soothing. But I don't think we should base our life on any 1 particular ideology because of the possibility of us being wrong. Imagine someone basing their entire life on 1 particular ideology , and it turns out that they were simply wrong. The sunk-cost fallacy would be unbelievable.
sosborn 5y ago
I agree fully, but in general, suicide isn't a conclusion reached by completely logical thought. Sadly, there are usually other factors at play negatively influencing the thought process.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
maskedinvader 5y ago
what I would like to point out is that even though every galaxy rushes away and we can no longer see them eventually, its an amazing thing we were born at a time when they still here and the cosmic microwave background radiation is still detectible at all and we are able to piece together the beginnings and predict the end of the universe. That thought alone inspires me to look for meaning in our existence. I know its an anthropological line of thinking but its what I personally think is amazing about all this.
klyrs 5y ago
I heard this on the radio the other day, which turns this observation on its head: > I want science to give us a sense of wonder. There is this great line from the film Contact that I think Jodie Foster delivers, along the lines of "the universe is so large and we are so small and therefore insignificant, but also incredibly precious." Most of the matter and energy content in the universe is dark matter and dark energy. And therefore what we can see — stars, us — we are what's abnormal about the universe, and we are therefore incredibly precious. So I think that there's something really majestic about being able to situate ourselves in context of this incredible thing that is the universe. (apologies, this is probably only a free listen in Canada) https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/mar-27-covid-pandemic-origins-nature-sounds-good-why-humans-have-such-big-brains-and-more-1.5965083/a-theoretical-cosmologist-explores-the-right-to-wonder-upon-the-night-sky-1.5965087 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/mar-27-covid-pandemic-origin... Without observers, the universe would be completely without meaning. We are the most significant thing out there. We make it interesting, by being interested.

rbanffy 5y ago

We live on some of the nicest and most interesting part of all of spacetime. I cherish every moment, even knowing our names and deeds will be long forgotten (at least I hope some of mine are) well before the first proton decays.

allendoerfer 5y ago

It helps to think of time as a dimension. Sure, you, anyone or anything will not last measured on this dimension. But it still has a span. You would not call objects meaningless or less beautiful just because they physically end at some point in space. Why is time so different? It is just the fourth dimension of their shape, giving them a more unique character.

sooheon 5y ago
I love this take. Very Vonnegut.
goatlover 5y ago
Because for most of that dimension, there won't be anyone around to consider the spans meaningful or beautiful.
dunnevens 5y ago
I came up with similar thoughts after losing someone I loved. Helped immensely to think of time as a dimension. Even though I'm trapped on a one way course, those previous moments still exist. Even though the person I loved is dead and I'll never talk to her again, those moments of her life will always exist. As far as I know, nothing can ever erase it. There will always be a place in the universe where she's alive and happy. A place that I'll probably never be able to visit but still is immensely comforting knowing it exists. I guess that's my version of a secular afterlife. Not entirely comforting as all the moments of suffering still exist too, somewhere. But still, it means there's a permanence to even the most impermanent things.
- herdcall 5y ago
  This (that time is a dimension) is as I understand what most physicists believe today and constitutes the so-called eternalism (or "block universe") philosophy of time. According to this view, past/present/future are our (human) terms to explain what is already laid out and we're simply moving along the time access just like we move along in space (though of course only in direction). I've become a big believer in this view. A valuable upshot of embracing eternalism is that it makes it much easier not to regret the past or worry about the future, though some believe it encourages risky behavior.
  - uh_uh 5y ago
    I don't think most physicists subscribe to the view that things are laid out already. I think most believe that physics is non-deterministic due to QM. Other schools of thoughts like superdeterminism does believe what you're saying but I think this is a minority view (albeit advocated by some very high profile physicists). What is not clear to me however is whether a block universe view can still be correct even if non-determinism is true.

elevaet 5y ago

Your words were stirring. Reminds me of the monologue scene in "Ghost Story" https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6bs2o5 https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6bs2o5

kibwen 5y ago

Similar experience here. Learning about astronomy was a psychologically traumatizing experience. After a few years of ceaseless low-key existential crises I think I finally ended up better off, with a healthy perspective of my place in the universe and an appreciation for what a miracle it is that we have the chance to observe anything at all. The writings of Carl Sagan helped greatly. But I fear I could have just as easily slipped off the knife's edge into either nihilism on one side or hedonism on the other.

AlexanderTheGr8 5y ago
Is nihilism or hedonism bad? A lot of people already live their lives for pleasure (hedonism) - people work their entire lives to earn money to either enjoy / vacation / sex / etc. Nihilism is considerably rare but I believe that's because it's opposite to hedonism, in a way.
- Saptarishi 5y ago
  I think good-bad is not a fair comparision to classify hedonism into one of them. There are generic pleasures like money/sex , and subjective pleasures.Both can easily spiral into greed, malice and prejudice, none of which we really want too much of.
- entropicdrifter 5y ago
  >I believe that's because it's opposite to hedonism, in a way. I don't see how. Nihilism is descriptive whereas hedonism is prescriptive. Nihilism is an answer to the question of what is or is not, to which is says, "not at all". That's why there are many flavors of nihilism, such as existential nihilism ("there is no meaning at all"), moral nihilism ("there is no morality at all"), or epistemic nihilism ("there is no knowledge at all"). Contrast hedonism, which is an answer to the question of what one ought to do with one's time, or to put another way, it's a min-max strategy where pain is minimized and pleasure is maximized. I don't see how those two areas of philosophy contradict each other in any way.
NikolaeVarius 5y ago
I dont understand. hedonism and nihilism are good things.

entropicdrifter 5y ago

>In the end it doesn't matter what you do. What you accomplish or did not accomplish. What awards were won or lost, life goals achieved or not. I tend to turn this type of thinking on its head. Nothing matters, so relax, it's a ride. Take a few gambles, risk whatever you're willing to lose and see what you can pull off! Life can be wild if you're not caught up in the stuffy pretense that we all have some grand purpose or destiny. Honestly, at this point I'm convinced that conventional thinking on this topic is more or less a trap to keep people from exploring and having adventures, so that they're better servants to the elites of our world.

AlexanderTheGr8 5y ago

"Nothing matters" - that's a very soothing thought. It's soothing because we all focus of what we haven't / couldn't done. It's human mentality to think of bad things over good things. So if nothing matters, then our bad things don't matter, and so it's soothing. But I don't think we should base our life on any 1 particular ideology because of the possibility of us being wrong. Imagine someone basing their entire life on 1 particular ideology , and it turns out that they were simply wrong. The sunk-cost fallacy would be unbelievable.

sosborn 5y ago

I agree fully, but in general, suicide isn't a conclusion reached by completely logical thought. Sadly, there are usually other factors at play negatively influencing the thought process.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

maskedinvader 5y ago

what I would like to point out is that even though every galaxy rushes away and we can no longer see them eventually, its an amazing thing we were born at a time when they still here and the cosmic microwave background radiation is still detectible at all and we are able to piece together the beginnings and predict the end of the universe. That thought alone inspires me to look for meaning in our existence. I know its an anthropological line of thinking but its what I personally think is amazing about all this.

klyrs 5y ago

I heard this on the radio the other day, which turns this observation on its head: > I want science to give us a sense of wonder. There is this great line from the film Contact that I think Jodie Foster delivers, along the lines of "the universe is so large and we are so small and therefore insignificant, but also incredibly precious." Most of the matter and energy content in the universe is dark matter and dark energy. And therefore what we can see — stars, us — we are what's abnormal about the universe, and we are therefore incredibly precious. So I think that there's something really majestic about being able to situate ourselves in context of this incredible thing that is the universe. (apologies, this is probably only a free listen in Canada) https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/mar-27-covid-pandemic-origins-nature-sounds-good-why-humans-have-such-big-brains-and-more-1.5965083/a-theoretical-cosmologist-explores-the-right-to-wonder-upon-the-night-sky-1.5965087 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/quirks/mar-27-covid-pandemic-origin... Without observers, the universe would be completely without meaning. We are the most significant thing out there. We make it interesting, by being interested.