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I don't know about America, but when comparing payment infrastructure in Europe vs. Asia, I'm always amazed at how bad the EU is. Hoping that this will work bu

I don't know about America, but when comparing payment infrastructure in Europe vs. Asia, I'm always amazed at how bad the EU is. Hoping that this will work but I highly doubt it - most European banks were created a very long time ago and like all legacy systems it's really hard to change their habit. Even if I'm using this "immediate payment system", I'm pretty sure my local bank will still delay my payment by a few days "because they are used to do it that way".

cblconfederate 5y ago
well it seems SEPA didnt take too long to implement, and frankly most banks have gotten used to frequent changes in EU banks regulation so, if this is real, it might not take too long
hestefisk 5y ago
Banks by EU law have to comply with SEPA / instant payments. Payments in Europe is very good compared to US and in most cases also better than Asia. After all, Europe invented open banking and PSD2. Asia is very fragmented. Countries like China, HK and Singapore are very good on instant payments, in particular because card payments have very high MDR and fees. Other countries like Indonesia and Philippines are just now starting to implement fast payments and national clearing infrastructure. And, unlike Europe, cross-border payments are still highly fragmented and expensive.
- gpvos 5y ago
  MDR = Merchant Discount Rate (I assume), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_account#Discount_rates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_account#Discount_rate...
  - hestefisk 5y ago
    Yes the fees the merchant pays to the acquiring and issuing bank for processing the card payment.
rozab 5y ago
Where in Asia? I've heard bad things about transfers in Japan, for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbS6JrBcQ4M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbS6JrBcQ4M In the UK transfers are free and near-instant, and contactless is ubiquitous.
pavlov 5y ago
I moved from Finland to UK to USA, so I have personal experience with three rather different banking ecosystems. The payment systems in America are literally 30+ years behind Finland and UK. It's absurdly bad. People still send paper checks. There's no national infrastructure for bank transfers. You shouldn't give out your bank account number to anyone (unlike EU/UK where it's perfectly safe to post account numbers). Direct debit seems crazy unregulated. Credit cards and bank-specific transfer systems are used to patch the most glaring holes in this mess, which I'm sure pleases Visa/Mastercard and the banks themselves, but leaves everyone else worse off.
- toomuchtodo 5y ago
  The US Federal Reserve is implementing Instant Payments in 2023 [1]. The system is already in beta testing [2], and its development is ahead of schedule [3], going live a full year earlier than first projected. Fintech sees the writing on the wall with Paypal moving into crypto and brokerage services, and Visa attempting to acquire Plaid to move away from payments. Payment revenue is going to (rightfully so) plummet as the Fed fixes antiquated plumbing and drags the US into the 21st century (54 other countries already have instant payment systems [4]). One would expect banks and the Fed to eventually adopt similar infra that Europe is (per this submission), where card infra can use these Instant Payment ("FedNow") rails for C2C, C2B, and B2B payments (although, eventually, everyone will move to QR codes a la China; Zelle is beta testing QR code support for instant payments on their network [5]). US payments currently suck, but I wanted to share that progress is being. [1] https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federal-reserves-planned-instant-payments-service/ https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federa... [2] https://www.pymnts.com/news/faster-payments/2021/five-banks-test-fednow-real-time-payments-system/ https://www.pymnts.com/news/faster-payments/2021/five-banks-... [3] https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/blog/updated-fednow-service-launch-to-2023.html https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/blog/u... [4] https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/instant-payments-education/trending-world-faster-instant-payments.html https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/instan... [5] https://www.zellepay.com/support/how-do-i-use-zelle-qr-code https://www.zellepay.com/support/how-do-i-use-zelle-qr-code
hocuspocus 5y ago
> I don't know about America, but when comparing payment infrastructure in Europe vs. Asia, I'm always amazed at how bad the EU is. Europe, Asia, EU... why make such meaningless generalizations? Have you ever done banking in Japan? > Even if I'm using this "immediate payment system", I'm pretty sure my local bank will still delay my payment by a few days "because they are used to do it that way". You realize there are EU directives behind the standards implemented by banks? SCT Inst has to be operated 24/7, and transfers available at the receiving end within 10 seconds.
dtech 5y ago
Can you provide examples of what you had in Asia that you are missing in Europe? And which countries.

cblconfederate 5y ago

well it seems SEPA didnt take too long to implement, and frankly most banks have gotten used to frequent changes in EU banks regulation so, if this is real, it might not take too long

hestefisk 5y ago

Banks by EU law have to comply with SEPA / instant payments. Payments in Europe is very good compared to US and in most cases also better than Asia. After all, Europe invented open banking and PSD2. Asia is very fragmented. Countries like China, HK and Singapore are very good on instant payments, in particular because card payments have very high MDR and fees. Other countries like Indonesia and Philippines are just now starting to implement fast payments and national clearing infrastructure. And, unlike Europe, cross-border payments are still highly fragmented and expensive.

gpvos 5y ago
MDR = Merchant Discount Rate (I assume), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_account#Discount_rates https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_account#Discount_rate...
- hestefisk 5y ago
  Yes the fees the merchant pays to the acquiring and issuing bank for processing the card payment.

rozab 5y ago

Where in Asia? I've heard bad things about transfers in Japan, for instance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbS6JrBcQ4M https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbS6JrBcQ4M In the UK transfers are free and near-instant, and contactless is ubiquitous.

pavlov 5y ago

I moved from Finland to UK to USA, so I have personal experience with three rather different banking ecosystems. The payment systems in America are literally 30+ years behind Finland and UK. It's absurdly bad. People still send paper checks. There's no national infrastructure for bank transfers. You shouldn't give out your bank account number to anyone (unlike EU/UK where it's perfectly safe to post account numbers). Direct debit seems crazy unregulated. Credit cards and bank-specific transfer systems are used to patch the most glaring holes in this mess, which I'm sure pleases Visa/Mastercard and the banks themselves, but leaves everyone else worse off.

toomuchtodo 5y ago
The US Federal Reserve is implementing Instant Payments in 2023 [1]. The system is already in beta testing [2], and its development is ahead of schedule [3], going live a full year earlier than first projected. Fintech sees the writing on the wall with Paypal moving into crypto and brokerage services, and Visa attempting to acquire Plaid to move away from payments. Payment revenue is going to (rightfully so) plummet as the Fed fixes antiquated plumbing and drags the US into the 21st century (54 other countries already have instant payment systems [4]). One would expect banks and the Fed to eventually adopt similar infra that Europe is (per this submission), where card infra can use these Instant Payment ("FedNow") rails for C2C, C2B, and B2B payments (although, eventually, everyone will move to QR codes a la China; Zelle is beta testing QR code support for instant payments on their network [5]). US payments currently suck, but I wanted to share that progress is being. [1] https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federal-reserves-planned-instant-payments-service/ https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2020/08/31/fednow-the-federa... [2] https://www.pymnts.com/news/faster-payments/2021/five-banks-test-fednow-real-time-payments-system/ https://www.pymnts.com/news/faster-payments/2021/five-banks-... [3] https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/blog/updated-fednow-service-launch-to-2023.html https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/blog/u... [4] https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/instant-payments-education/trending-world-faster-instant-payments.html https://www.frbservices.org/financial-services/fednow/instan... [5] https://www.zellepay.com/support/how-do-i-use-zelle-qr-code https://www.zellepay.com/support/how-do-i-use-zelle-qr-code

hocuspocus 5y ago

> I don't know about America, but when comparing payment infrastructure in Europe vs. Asia, I'm always amazed at how bad the EU is. Europe, Asia, EU... why make such meaningless generalizations? Have you ever done banking in Japan? > Even if I'm using this "immediate payment system", I'm pretty sure my local bank will still delay my payment by a few days "because they are used to do it that way". You realize there are EU directives behind the standards implemented by banks? SCT Inst has to be operated 24/7, and transfers available at the receiving end within 10 seconds.

dtech 5y ago

Can you provide examples of what you had in Asia that you are missing in Europe? And which countries.